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Frog Juicers compatible with RailPro?

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JJ Crooke:
I was wondering if anyone knew for sure or, better yet, actually tried using the Tam Valley's mono or hex Frog Juicers to power the frogs on their layout. Tam Valley's website specifies the Frog Juicers are DCC devices only but I'm a bit confused knowing that you can run RailPro equipped locomotives on DCC layouts. I have not powered-up my layout yet (not quite ready) but I just realized that they may not be compatible with the PWR-56. I've already wired two mono Frog Juicers on my layout.

Better to find out now if it is an issue than finding out the hard way when I power-up my layout for the first time.  :o

melarson:
There does seem to be a lot of confusion on the topic of inter-mixing RP and DCC control systems.  The fact is, as control systems they don't inter-mix.  No device that requires a DCC signal (reversers, juicers, some occupancy detectors, etc) will work on a RailPro-powered layout.  DCC devices that don't require the signal (a few occupancy detectors come to mind) may or may not work on RP, but the device manufacturer must state that it will work on DC systems for them to be RP-compatible.  Of course, going the other way, Ring states clearly that their devices (AR-1, etc) are not DCC compatible.

But we can run RailPro-equipped engines on a DCC-powered layout because the modules (LM-2/LM-2S) are able to use the DCC track power as their power supply, in lieu of pure DC.  This is accomplished on the modules by using a rectifier/filter/regulator circuit at the inputs (red and black wires).  In fact, DCC decoders do the same thing to supply power to their on-board circuitry.  Unlike decoders however, the RP modules ignore the data stream that the DCC system puts on the track and just uses the power.

Apparently the frog juicers need that DCC data stream (or more accurately, that waveform) to work.  I don't know if they will be damaged if you power them with pure DC, but given that they won't work on pure DC, thus making them useless for a RailPro-powered layout, why take the chance?

William Brillinger:
Why is the DCC signal required? This makes no sense to me. Aren't these kinds of devices simply electronic switches that detect shorts etc?

I'm sure they don't work on DC layouts merely because the locomotives are not isolated from the direct track power.

Has anybody actually asked TamValley if they will work with RailPro?

Tam's website says:
Q: I sometimes operate my DCC layout as DC.  I know they will not work with DC but will this hurt my frog juicers?
A: A lot of model railroaders have done this and it has not caused any damage.  However, I can't warranty your frog juicers in this case.

So probably no harm in trying it.

JJ Crooke:
Thanks for the replies. Because of the relatively low cost of a mono Frog Juicer (less than $20 CAD), I may take a chance and try to power one with the PWR-56. But I won't get my hopes up. Tam Valley's "DCC only" claim could be for warranty purposes only but I will send them an email to find out, although Tam will most likely stick to its 'DCC only" claim even though the juicers could technically work with DC.

That being said, does anyone knows of an alternative to power turnout frogs (e.g. DC compatible frog juicer, Tortoise type switch machine) that would work with the PWR-56? I will have to do more research on this.

G8B4Life:
The "DCC only" part for the waveform could be on the track side; it might not be able to detect and switch properly if it see's a constant +v or a constant 0v. The power supply side get's rectified as soon as it enters the board (all those components don't work on AC) so the PWR-56 should work on powering it up. Whether it would switch frog power correctly though who knows.

Edit: On the bottom of Tams website it says this.

"Will DC damage the frog juicer?  No- although they will not power the frogs, they will not be damaged by DC so feel free to run your layout in DC mode with the frog juicers attached." which gives some weight to the above theory, or similar theory anyway.

What switch machines are you using Joel? Although you said "Tortoise like" Tortoise can apparently switch frog polarity.

As to what else is out there, well all I can really say is research research research, because I don't know. I have one of these. Mine is an older version of A004 set (without DCC the set would be A002). These are of course complete turnout control sets but they are made for DC in the first instance.

http://www.anemodel.com/products_list.aspx?LEVEL=1&TYPE=2

- Tim

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