Misinformation

[KPack]

I find it interesting that there is still quite a bit of misinformation regarding Railpro floating out there.  I get a lot of comments on the videos I've posted, many of which ask questions which I respond to.  Here's an exchange between myself and someone who had viewed my (very old) Railpro Review video from 2012.

an update:  after talking with train world and a few other shops and after sending an e-mail directly to ring engineering requesting further information(which so far they have not responded to), and after reading the forums, i've decided not to purchase railpro. 
1. all the shops have said the same thing:  they believe it to be a "beta" type system.  ring engineering has no plans to make this system compatible with any other DC or DCC systems.
2. you have one choice for encoder... theirs.  if you don't like it tough luck.  they refuse to let other companies produce compatible encoders.  making this a 100% propitiatory system.  cost prohibited for anyone with an existing setup of any size.
3. the only way to achieve 100% RF connectivity is to install a battery in your loc.  in other words you will have just as many issues transmitting information to the encoder as you would if you had dirty tracks on a DCC system... unless you install a battery.  that's a deal breaker right there.
4. i'm N scale... nothing for that and certainly no room for extra batteries.
5. there is absolutely nothing this system does that DCC cannot.  many companies are working on it as we speak.  locnet shows that information can and does travel between controllers and trains quit easily on a DCC setup.  it is a software problem, not a hardware problem. 
6. ring engineering would like you to let them do all your programming or reprogramming.  leaving them in control of your railroad.  once established they will set the price to whatever they like for this "service".  this is a ruthless corporate approach which must not be aloud in the model railroad community.  this is an Apple approach... no thanks!
7. it is not, nor do they have plans to make it, compatible with software controllers such as Train Controller or JMRI.  for anyone with a large layout this is the death kiss.  the ability to mix and mach systems is what makes DCC great.
in conclusion:
ring has not achieved anything here other that to separate thee DCC signal from the track and use radio frequencies instead.  in my opinion i would rather have a direct connection by wire to my trains then rely on radio signals which are much more likely to experience interruptions.  if keeping my track clean is the only downfall to DCC then i say... no biggy.  I'd rather wait a while for the other companies to offer the same thing without having to change over my entire layout.  also, i believe, it is in the spirit of "tinkering" that most model railroaders excel.  we like it when things are a little "involved".  there is an art to matching locomotives... especially in a DC system.  for some guys that is the hobby.  as far as DCC goes i don't think it has even come close to it's full potential.

My response:

If you're in N-scale then you are definitely out of luck as far as Railpro is concerned, at least for the near future.  I know that they want to do N-scale modules, but I imagine that's a few years in the future.  If DCC is working great for you then that's awesome....some people love it, some hate it.  Hopefully DCC continues to work out well for you.

That's odd that Ring Engineering hasn't gotten back to you.  Normally they respond within a day or two, depending on the workload that they are under.  Also, I wonder if any of the shops you talked to had actual experience with Railpro.  I've talked to a few over the past year or two and many hadn't heard of it or had only heard second hand.  None had actually used it themselves.

There a couple of errors in what you said above, so for the benefit of others who are reading up on Railpro let me offer a few corrections.  Not trying to argue at all, just clarifying.
1. It's definitely not a beta system.  It was thought out and designed over a decade ago, and has been in production for 5-6 years.  It is a constantly evolving system, capable of software upgrades similar to ESU's products.
2. Yes, it is proprietary.  At this point I don't think Ring is interested/willing to share his technology with other manufacturers.
3. Yes and no.  If you are relying on track power you will have potential issues with power interruption just like any other system, be it DCC or DC.  Railpro doesn't magically solve that.  If you don't want to have power issues then the easiest way to avoid that is to either install keep-alive's or be sure the track is in top shape (clean, powered frogs, etc).
4. Correct, no N-scale support yet.  Sorry
5. Loconet and Direct Radio are different.  Direct Radio allows all Railpro products to communicate with each other in real-time.  This allows a consist of locomotives to automatically share the load without any user input, as they communicate with each and with the controller constantly and adjust they're own speed as needed.  DCC cannot do automatic load-sharing (speed matching).  If using Railpro power supplies, they will also act as repeaters, amplifying the radio signal so there are multiple paths for the signals to propagate.  And with the two-way radio communication we can see all info on the locomotive that we want (temperature, power available, power used, etc).  DCC doesn't do that yet, and I'm not sure how capable it is of doing that.
6. I'm not sure what you mean by this.  Ring Engineering doesn't do anything for you.  Early on it was required that users send in their pictures for Ring to process and send back for download to place on the controller.  Since then they've released the software that allows users to create all their own files and load them as they please.  That includes pictures, sounds, light effects, programs etc.  Ring releases constant software updates to fix bugs and enable new features, but besides that users are free to do whatever they want.
7. Let me clarify this.  The Railpro controller itself is not compatible with any DCC system because it doesn't transmit DCC signals.  The Railpro modules (decoders) ARE compatible with DCC.  You can control a Railpro-equipped locomotive with any DCC controller, including JMRI, EngineDriver, etc.  The newest Railpro modules (LM-2 and LM-3 series) have hardware built in that allows them to act as a normal, fully-functional DCC decoder when the DCC mode is turned on.  To summarize, a Railpro-equipped locomotive can be controlled by any DCC controller and used with any DCC locomotive, but the Railpro controller does NOT interface with DCC at all.

Again, it is important to realize that Railpro is NOT DCC.  It does not simply transmit DCC signals via radio.  Its language is completely different than DCC.  Ring Engineering has made it so their latest generation of modules can interpret and respond to DCC commands if the user desires it.  But the Railpro system was designed from the ground up to not be DCC and to not conform to accepted standards.  Some people don't like that, and that's understandable, but they certainly don't have to buy the system.  If people are happy with their DCC systems then that's fine.  But if you're looking for something different, look into Railpro.

Honestly, I wonder how many shops have even tried Railpro?  There are only a handful selling it, and most shops that I've talked to haven't heard of it.  How can they make a statement about it without actually trying it?  A lot of what this gentleman was talking about is simply untrue, so I'm not really sure where he got it from.  But I tried to correct what I could and do it a kind way.  I'm sure he'll be happy with whatever DCC system he's using but I wanted to correct the false info for anyone else who is searching out Railpro.

-Kevin

[Alan]

hmm... it was on the Internet so it must be true. 

[William Brillinger]

If you find a dealer giving misinformation about RailPro let Tim Ring know about it, he's not shy about sticking up for his system in that regard.

[KPack]

My favorite is #6....."leaving them in control of your railroad.  Once established they will set the price to whatever they want for this "service"."  What???  I honestly have no idea what he is talking about.  Is this really what people are saying out there?

If you find a dealer giving misinformation about RailPro let Tim Ring know about it, he's not shy about sticking up for his system in that regard.

Well, looks like Trainworld is one of them.  They don't carry Railpro as far as I know.  Whether or not they fed this guy some of the misinformation or not is unknown. 

-Kevin

[William Brillinger]

Clarification:

If you find a RailPro dealer giving misinformation about RailPro let Tim Ring know about it.

I don't think Tim's wrath will have much effect on a store that does not carry the product.

Updated: Trainworld does list Ring Engineering product on their website.

[nodcc4me]

Good reply Kevin, and you did it professionally. It's pretty sad that so many people in the business of model trains have no idea what RailPro is. Even the manufacturers have no clue as to how it works. I have spoken with reps at Bachmann, Athearn MTH and BLI, and none of them had a clue about RP. Many model railroaders, especially older ones, depend on hobby shops for information. Many of them have been die-hard DCC users for years. So how is the average guy supposed to know about RP if dealers and manufacturers don't? You can hardly blame them when there is little to no marketing being done.

All-in-all, I guess it's their loss, but it would be nice to be able to buy RP equipped locomotives the same way you buy DCC equipped locos, place them on the track and let 'em run.

Overtyped you Kevin. Edit: I think he meant they can charge for every upgrade or update if they so choose. This certainly has not been the case with RP.
Trainworld does carry RP products, but they don't advertise them.

[Alan]

Good reply Kevin, and you did it professionally.

Agreed. Although Kevin does have a lot of practice holding his tongue... er... other's tongues. 

[KPack]

More from the same guy.  I'd like to know where he's getting this "current information" from....because none of it is correct.  I'm not trying to convince this dude to use Railpro, but I will correct misinformation when I see it.  For whatever reason he can't wrap his head around what I'm saying.  I feel like I'm explaining things fairly well but I guess he's not getting it.

unfortunately my conclusions are based on current information.  which is even more scary that nothing has changed with ring engineering in five years.  they still refuse to play well with others.

Me:

Sorry, the information you have is not current nor is it accurate.  Railpro has changed a lot in 5 years: 3 generations of locomotive modules, 2 generations of controllers, two software programs for PC designed from the ground up, all new sounds, several very large feature updates (including DCC compatibility), and dozens of consistent software and operating system updates.  Many more updates are on the horizon.  So wherever the information you received came from, they are mistaken.  I'm not trying to change your mind here...I know you will not go for Railpro and I truly hope you enjoy using DCC, but I do want to set the record straight and correct misinformation.

-Kevin

[Alan]

Kevin, some people simply refuse to accept facts when it conflicts with their preconceived notions. The adage "Never wrestle with a pig..." comes to mind. Similar to the climate change issue. The facts are overwhelming yet...

[atsfguy]

 Reading these reports makes me even more glad that I stumbled onto this website. There is so much misinformation on the Internet it would be very easy to turn away from what I perceive to be the best system for control of a model locomotive to date.