General > General Discussion
Perspective Railpro user has some questions... Signal Range?
KB02:
Hello All!
This is my first post (aside from the Introduce yourself post). I have been considering making the switch from my DCC system and converting everything to Railpro. My biggest hang up (aside from the cost), is understanding the technology. I have been trying to read up as much as I can about it - including the entire FAQ section of Railpro's website - but I have found a few questions still needing to be answered and was hoping the group knowledge here could help me out.
My layout started as a simple DC layout on a 4x8 sheet of plywood. Soon the curves left the boundaries of the 4x8 and, as I wanted to run more than one loco at a time, I added in Block wiring. As the railroad expended even further and took over the adjacent room, I came to realize the limitations of my simple DC set up and converted everything to DCC (while still keeping a small section switchable to DC for unconverted locos and new engines that didn't have a DCC Decoder in it yet, etc.). The vast majority of the locos in my fleet are old DC locos that have been converted to DCC with only a couple that were built in recent years with DCC specifically in mind (they run great compared to the others, too). SO, I am no novice at wiring and have obtained a pretty good working knowledge on the DC-DCC differences. But with Railpro, I'm a little confused...
- Railpro runs on DC, correct? Not AC like a DCC system?
- If this is true, can a Railpro loco run on any DC layout as long as the power is set to a certain level?
- At what voltage does it run?
- If I wanted to spend the minimum for a "Test Set-up" on a simple oval, could I just get the basic LM3 module and the computer interface and use an existing DC power pack to power the track? Or is there something special about the Railpro power supply?
Next: Right now, my layout is powered by a 5 amp DCC booster. This has been working well, but with the next expansion that I am planning I will be breaking it up into two power districts as the sheer size of the layout extends a good distance away from the current power supply.
- Would this be the same case for a Railpro layout? I've seen the repeaters, but those are for radio control signal, not power, right?
My layout mostly just goes around the walls in a 13'x32' room, plus a 4'x8'(ish) section on the other side of a wall.
- Would one power supply suffice, or would I need two?
Okay, that's enough questions for now. I'm sure I'll come up with more, but I'll let the group digest those to start with.
Thanks for your insight and assistance.
-Bob
KB02
William Brillinger:
--- Quote ---- Railpro runs on DC, correct? Not AC like a DCC system?
--- End quote ---
No, RailPro will run on DC Power or DCC power. You can place a RailPro equipped locomotive on any DCC layout and run it with your RailPro HC or CI-1 without worry. RailPro only draws power from the rails, it does not care if it's DC or DCC power.
--- Quote ---- If this is true, can a Railpro loco run on any DC layout as long as the power is set to a certain level?- At what voltage does it run?
--- End quote ---
The sweet spot is between 13 and 15V on the rails. Max and Min are 12 & 18V
More info on the LM's:
https://www.ringengineering.com/LM-3S.htm
https://www.ringengineering.com/RailPro/Documents/LM-3Instructions.pdf
--- Quote ---- If I wanted to spend the minimum for a "Test Set-up" on a simple oval, could I just get the basic LM3 module and the computer interface and use an existing DC power pack to power the track? Or is there something special about the Railpro power supply?
--- End quote ---
All you need is the CI-1, a windows PC, and an LM-3 or LM-3S and you're ready to test on your existing DCC layout.
--- Quote ---Next: Right now, my layout is powered by a 5 amp DCC booster. This has been working well, but with the next expansion that I am planning I will be breaking it up into two power districts as the sheer size of the layout extends a good distance away from the current power supply.
- Would this be the same case for a Railpro layout? I've seen the repeaters, but those are for radio control signal, not power, right?
--- End quote ---
The repeater is for radio signal and it built into the PWR-56. It is best not to run from a basic DC powerpack as a proper filtered DC output is better for the equipment. The PWR-56 provides smooth filtered power with short protection, and some advanced feedback to the controller performance metrics.
--- Quote ---My layout mostly just goes around the walls in a 13'x32' room, plus a 4'x8'(ish) section on the other side of a wall.
- Would one power supply suffice, or would I need two?
--- End quote ---
This is a link to my track plan. I only run 2 or 3 trains at a time, but it runs perfectly well with only 1 RailPro PWR-56 power supply. I have approximately 180ft of mainline. https://www.pdc.ca/personal/Blog%20Images/2013-11-20%20BNML%20Trackplan%204000px.jpg
I hope this answers most of your current questions.
KB02:
Wow! An 82” lift out? Eat your Wheaties, Bill! ;D
Seriously, nice layout. I would say that if you run well off of one power supply, then mine would, too. I will only be around 110 feet of double main line when I am done. And like you, would only be running two or three trains at a time.
Thanks for your answers, they really do help.
-Bob
KB02
Alan:
Layout size is not (directly) the determining factor when considering power supply. Electrical resistance between the power supply and the locomotive(s) is the important criteria. Steel rails have relatively high resistance compared to copper wire so a separate wire pair (power buss) with feeders to the rails is commonly used. You can have a wiring run as long as you wish providing you use a sufficiently heavy wire size for your power bus. Bigger wire = less resistance. You can do the math to determine wire size or simply use 12 gauge wire and not worry about length.
As you know DCC uses an AC square wave on the rails. Wire resistance is effectively much less with AC current than with DC current. Therefore, DCC is less sensitive to power loss over long wiring runs than is DC. DCC has other long wire run issues with respect to control signal fidelity but those don't matter if you are only using the DCC system to provide power, not control. It may be simplest for you to use your existing DCC system to power RP equipment.
As Bill recommends, don't use your DC throttle pack to run microelectronic stuff. The power signature is way too dirty for microelectronics to tolerate for long.
DaveB:
Question Bill. Where is you power pack located on your layout? What size wire do you use for your buss lines and how far apart are your drops? I am building a new layout in a 36x15 room. It's going to have close to 200 ft of main line, a 28 ft switch yard with 8 tracks, several sidings and spurs. I was thinking I would need 2 PRW-56's.
Bob..Do not try to run RailPro on DC. I had an engine on a club track and they switched from DCC to DC with out me knowing it and I fried a module. Some say it can work, I would't take a chance.
Dave
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