Post by: CPRail on July 08, 2024, 02:19:31 PM
Referencing my previous topic on the Rapido B36-7 and it's mapping (https://rpug.pdc.ca/index.php/topic,1572.0.html (https://rpug.pdc.ca/index.php/topic,1572.0.html)), I just got a copy of the ESU non-sound decoder file from Rapido. Does anyone here have the ability to read it and figure out how they mapped Function 13 for the SP Gyra-lites? I'd really like to get this unit completed.
Post by: G8B4Life on July 09, 2024, 04:54:13 AM
- Tim
Post by: CPRail on July 09, 2024, 07:51:40 AM
Post by: G8B4Life on July 09, 2024, 08:20:47 AM
If either you or Bill has a concern you can zip the file with a password and PM me the password.
- Tim
Post by: CPRail on July 09, 2024, 10:14:15 AM
Post by: G8B4Life on July 10, 2024, 09:03:54 AM
This is the function mapping for the B36-7 from Rapido. As you can see for the entries with F13 in them the Gyralight is on Aux11 (forward) and Aux12 (reverse). These are pins 6 and 5 on the 21 pin decoder.
Click image to enlarge
Now the confusing thing with whats in your photo's from the other thread is that while U+ is positive and has a red wire. X11 and X12, being logic level should also be positive but they, along with X10 (the emergency light) have black wires. Not that many manufacturers follow any colour convention when it comes to wiring but it's not helpful in figuring out whats what. I also don't see any connection to ground on the board.
To really work out what's going on you'll have to unscrew the Gyralight board and see what's going on the underside.
I still solidly suspect you'll have to hardwire your own Gyralight in. It may be possible to modify the existing board but until we know what's what with it it's too hard to say.
-Tim
Post by: CPRail on July 10, 2024, 09:50:54 AM
Post by: CPRail on July 18, 2024, 08:52:46 AM
Post by: G8B4Life on July 20, 2024, 11:18:34 AM
Anyway, there are no transistors on the little board so that means they must located on the decoder motherboard, on the underside as I see none in your photos of the decoder motherboard. This then makes sense of the wiring to the Gyralight and emergency light but unfortunately makes wiring just a bit harder for you.
Because we can not control logic level with RP without a lot of extra circuitry that means you can't just hook the LM up to the 21 pin adapter and off you go, you will have to hardwire the LM for the Gyralight and Emergency light. The good part is you should be able to wire the LM directly to the little board on the chassis. You will very likely need to put appropriate resistors in line because I don't know where the existing resistors are; they could be on the motherboard (which you'll bypass) or it might be at the LED's themselves. You'll have to check carefully. Do you have a multimeter?
So the blue wire would go the U+ pad on the little board and the outputs of your choosing would go to X10, X11 and X12 on the little board.
- Tim
PS, now I'm wondering why X10 and X11 only have one set of wires each and X12 has two?
Post by: CPRail on July 21, 2024, 01:34:34 PM
Stay tuned.
Post by: CPRail on July 23, 2024, 08:47:42 AM
If this worked there should be 6 photos attached:
One each top and bottom of the Gyra-lite board in the shell
One each, top and bottom, of the Main 21 pin board in the loco
Finally, 2 shots of the X12 wires - I traced them and they go to the rear Gyra-lite.
Pardon the tweezers in the shots, I needed something to hold the boards in position to take the photo.
While I would love to have both front and rear Gyra-lites, I only need the front ones. I have no operational need for the front red emergency light, but if I can make it work, why not?
Post by: G8B4Life on July 24, 2024, 07:09:37 AM
It's as I thought. See all those little items labelled Q1 to Q8 on the bottom on the motherboard? those are the transistors to "amplify" the logic level outputs from the Loksound decoder to make them capable of driving LEDs, lamps etc. It appears all the resistors are on the motherboard as well. This is a plus and a negative. Negative because we can't use them with the adapter and plus because we can easily bypass them.
What you will need to do is for each item in the table that has a logic level output is (ignore the transistor in the table, I was just guessing which transistor was for which output):
Unsolder the wires between the pads between the little boards (on the chassis) and the motherboard and solder on a wire from the LM to the pads on the little boards. You'll need to put a resistors inline as well. U+ will need to be connected to the blue wire on the 9 pin harness.
Table 1 : Rapido B36-7 - LokSound Auxilliary Outputs
| Output | Output type | Programmed effect | Transistor (guessed) | DCC mapping |
| X1 | Power | Ditchlight Type 1 (alt phase) | F6 - Ditchlights (Front) | |
| X2 | Power | Ditchlight Type 1 | F6 - Ditchlights (Front) | |
| X3 | Logic | Dimmable Headlight | 1 | F11 - Class lights (Rear) |
| X4 | Logic | Dimmable Headlight | 2 | F19 - Numberboards |
| X5 | Logic | Dimmable Headlight | 3 | F11 - Class lights (rear) |
| X6 | Logic | Ditchlight Type 1 | 4 | F6 - Ditchlights (Rear) |
| X7 | Logic | Ditchlight Type 1 (alt phase) | 5 | F6 - Ditchlights (Rear) |
| X10 | Logic | Oscillating Headlight | 6 | F17 - Emergency light |
| X11 | Logic | Gyra light | 7 | F13 - Gyra light (Front) |
| X12 | Logic | Gyra light | 8 | F13 - Gyra light (Rear) |
or, as much as I really don't want to say you might be able to use a decoder buddy from nixtrainz (http://"https://nicknixtrainz.com/") and use the adapter with that and scrap the factory motherboard all together.
You could also, if you feel macho enough just make a new "motherboard" from plain PCB or stripboard and go from there.
-Tim
Post by: CPRail on August 06, 2024, 04:09:48 PM
After reviewing your message and looking at the pics again, I'm thinking that soldering change plan is beyond my skill set. Heck, I'm amazed every time I can get a loco to work on RailPro.
I'm okay soldering, but fiddling with teeny wires is my nemesis. There's a reason the 4 Rapido SW1200RS units I've converted to RP don't have any working lights.
Also, I must be the only person on the planet who couldn't figure out how to use a Decoder Buddy, so I'm guessing that's not an option.
I'm using what I believe are TCS 21 pin-9 pin harnesses (I got them from Bill). Could I use any of the function wires on the 6 pin side to connect to the wiring going to the Gyra-Lite board? I'm okay with severing the connections from the 21 pin motherboard to those wires and hooking them up to the 6 pin side, even if I have to wire in a resistor. There's enough room to do that kind of work.
Post by: G8B4Life on August 13, 2024, 07:50:57 AM
Sorry, I totally missed your reply! Anyway, yes, what you asked is what I said you'll need to do.
I don't know which version of the TCS 21 to 9 pin adapter board you got; the old version just has pads for the 9 pins but the new version has a whole bunch more pads. If you have that version just ignore all the extra pads as we can't use them.
So, on the 9 pin side the adapter will power the front and read headlights, and should also power the front ditch lights (Output 3 and 4 on RailPro). For everything else this is what you'll need to do:
On the gyra board that attaches to the chassis (not the one in the shell) unsolder/sever the X8/X10, U+/X12 and X11 black wires and solder an output wire from the 6 pin to each. A resistor will likely need to be soldered inline to each of them.
If you have a multimeter / voltmeter you should test the U+ red wire on the gyra board to see if there is connectivity or any resistance between the pad on the Gyra board and the blue wire on the adapter board (just put the harness on the motherboard without the LM attached). This is the common and it should be straight through with no interference.
Hope that's all explanatory enough.
- Tim
Post by: CPRail on August 13, 2024, 08:02:59 AM
Okay, sounds easy enough. Just need to have enough time where the bravery/insanity levels are to attempt it. Maybe this weekend.
Of course, She Who Must Be Obeyed may have other plans...