Post by: DavidD_OKC on January 12, 2018, 01:27:50 AM
Thoughts?
Post by: William Brillinger on January 12, 2018, 06:03:44 AM
There is a whole lineup of options made to fit different locomotives:
Diesel: http://tcsdcc.com/Zen/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=97_123
Steam: http://tcsdcc.com/Zen/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=97_122
I wonder what kind of adapter is needed to connect them to the LM.
They are kind of pricey, but if anyone is interested in order these I can probably provide about a 15% discount on them in small groups.
Post by: G8B4Life on January 12, 2018, 06:15:08 AM
Bill, they take a 21 pin decoder so you'd need the 9 pin to 21 pin adapter. I really wish TR would get on the ball and develop a 21 pin LM, the world is moving that way, even if the NMRA standards committee doesn't like it. "You can just use a harness" is not a valid reason for not developing it.
- Tim
Post by: William Brillinger on January 12, 2018, 06:16:55 AM
https://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Atlas/GP40%20Sound/Atlas%20GP40%20_WOW121-Diesel%20and%20AK-MB1.html
I'm going to send Tim a message suggesting that if he developed a new format for the LM with a down facing 21 pin, people could use these boards!
Post by: G8B4Life on January 12, 2018, 06:41:58 AM
I'm going to send Tim a message suggesting that if he developed a new format for the LM with a down facing 21 pin, people could use these boards!
I wish you luck :) The reply I got to that (quite some time ago now) was "you can use a harness", well, the trouble with that is that room for a harness is almost non existent these days. With a 21 pin he could add more functions as well, which are needed.
- Tim
Post by: DavidD_OKC on January 12, 2018, 08:49:25 AM
I'll be in touch about making an order Bill. I think I would like to try these to see if it's worth the effort.
Post by: William Brillinger on January 12, 2018, 11:12:51 AM
Quote
Have you ever looked at the TCS motherboards?
If you designed a new flat package for the LM with a downward facing 21 pin plug, your LM would be instantly compatible with this product and your customers could have instant access to a simpler installation on a lot of models without the need for you to develop or produce these kinds of products.
I would encourage you to look at this idea, you could easily remove the fear that many people have about "hard wiring" and remove a mental barrier that people have to migration to RailPro.
There is a whole lineup of options made to fit different locomotives:
Diesel: http://tcsdcc.com/Zen/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=97_123
Steam: http://tcsdcc.com/Zen/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=97_122
Installation example: https://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Atlas/GP40%20Sound/Atlas%20GP40%20_WOW121-Diesel%20and%20AK-MB1.html
And a reply from Ring:
Quote
As the 21 pin becomes more and more common it makes us more and more likely to make a module with a 21 pin connector. Thanks for the information.
Post by: DavidD_OKC on January 12, 2018, 12:57:55 PM
Post by: William Brillinger on January 12, 2018, 01:25:36 PM
Post by: G8B4Life on January 13, 2018, 04:55:50 AM
As the 21 pin becomes more and more common it makes us more and more likely to make a module with a 21 pin connector. Thanks for the information.
How much more common does he need to it be? Even stalwarts of the 9 pin (DigiTrax) have added two 21 pin decoders to their line. In fact the 21 pin is becoming so much more popular (thanks largely to ESU LokSound) that all the major US decoder manufacturers have added the 21 pin to their lineup. TCS way back I don't know when and NCE and DigiTrax in last year. That's a pretty big message to me.
Back to the OT, looking at this further, while the motherboards are good by using a generic 9 to 21 pin adapter to use them with an LM you won't get the Keep Alive functionality, and will have to mod the board to use functions 5 and 6 and the speakers unless you wire them as per a normal hardwire.
- Tim
Post by: DavidD_OKC on January 13, 2018, 01:43:16 PM
So I suppose the thing to do is write that note to Tim Ring.....
Post by: William Brillinger on January 13, 2018, 02:03:22 PM
Post by: BruceRogers on January 15, 2018, 05:18:30 PM
Post by: DavidD_OKC on February 08, 2018, 01:49:03 AM
The biggest advantage I can see is eliminating all those resistors one needs to wire in when adding the lights. It should keep the job tidier.
That's what I was thinking as well.
Post by: William Brillinger on February 09, 2018, 10:46:25 AM
https://tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Literature/Motherboards/AK-MB1.pdf (https://tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Literature/Motherboards/AK-MB1.pdf)
TCS MB Diagram:
All of TCS' motherboards conform to the NMRA NEM660 Standard for the 21-pin connector. The pin-out for the 21-pin connector is as follows:
(http://www.sbs4dcc.com/images/236_NEM660.jpg)
The KA is on Pins 16 and 20.
It looks to me like if Ring would offer a 21 pin version of the LM-3 then these mother boards would be plug and play for them.
TCS also indicated they will be offering a 21 pin breakout board soon, which would make connecting a current LM-3 fairly simple.
The TCS T-1-21 could also have the 6 pin harness added to it but it would be a little trickier. There are pads on the underside of the T-1-21 that appear to be for the Aux Outputs.
RailPro LM-3S wiring diagram included for reference:
(https://rpug.pdc.ca/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=383.0;attach=573;image)
Post by: nortoneye on February 09, 2018, 01:34:36 PM
jim
Post by: Rtardif on February 16, 2018, 07:07:28 PM
Post by: William Brillinger on February 16, 2018, 07:20:17 PM
I’m still pretty new to this hobby but is there any disadvantages to hard wiring the LM3S to the loco and getting rid of the motherboard. Besides the time and having to add a resistor for each light
Nope. In fact hardwiring is the best choice for reliability generally.
Post by: Dean on February 17, 2018, 06:55:34 PM
http://tcsdcc.com/Zen/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=401 (http://tcsdcc.com/Zen/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=401)
Post by: William Brillinger on February 17, 2018, 08:37:12 PM
TCS makes 9 PIN to 21 Pin adaptors.
http://tcsdcc.com/Zen/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=401 (http://tcsdcc.com/Zen/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=401)
Yes, but they do not connect on all the needed circuits, as is, to leverage the KA in the board. A full 21pin connection is required. I've been discussing this with TCS for a while now. When TCS releases a full breakout board then this will be a piece of cake. Then we can build a harness with the 6 and 9 pin connectors on it already.
Post by: William Brillinger on February 17, 2018, 08:42:24 PM
Post by: TwinStar on February 18, 2018, 10:26:23 AM
Talking to Tim at Ring yesterday he mentioned they are developing their own "keep alive" that he feels will be better than what is out there now, no timetable. I have a k-4 on order to try this out.
jim
How long has this been 'in development' now?
Post by: William Brillinger on February 18, 2018, 10:33:23 AM
How long has this been 'in development' now?
My earliest note from Tim Ring about that is from March 2014.
Post by: nortoneye on February 18, 2018, 05:54:20 PM
Post by: G8B4Life on February 19, 2018, 07:51:08 AM
My earliest note from Tim Ring about that is from March 2014.
Which makes me wonder just how many ways are there to connect some super capacitors, a resistor and a diode? Unless TR knows something that no one else does. In the meantime TCS and others keep selling their keep alives and taking RP customers money away from RE :o
- Tim
Post by: Alan on February 19, 2018, 12:20:34 PM
We speculated Tim may be working on a current regulated/limited version of a keep alive. This approach would spare the output transistors in the event of a short but would also limit drive current to the motor to <100mA (output pin limit). Likely 100mA is more than sufficient for motor drive current in all but a few cases like single locomotive under heavy load.
I'm guessing this current protection dilemma may be the reason it is taking Tim a long time to bring a product to market. If the LM had pins that connect to the output of the internal rectifier (upstream of current protection) then all would be well. That likely entails more change than it sounds like.
Post by: Dean on February 19, 2018, 04:58:22 PM
I have not had an engine drop out in 2-3 months.
I would rather spend my money on more RailPro decoders. :)
Post by: nortoneye on February 19, 2018, 07:36:14 PM
jim
Post by: Dean on February 20, 2018, 09:18:17 AM
Here is a link to another discussion on graphite. http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/267715/3030468.aspx (http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/267715/3030468.aspx)
Another link http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/17181 (http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/17181)
Post by: nortoneye on February 20, 2018, 12:30:26 PM
Post by: Dean on February 20, 2018, 01:48:49 PM