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RailPro => RailPro Discussion & Help => Topic started by: Josephbw on April 16, 2021, 09:28:33 AM

Title: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on April 16, 2021, 09:28:33 AM
I was up until 12:30 this morning downloading a 567 ULT file. After it concluded, I went to bed. This morning I wanted to transfer the file to my engine, but the only file it found was the regular 567 file.

This was going to go in a GP30 with a LM2S module. Is it possible that the LM2s is not compatible with ULT files? Or have I managed to discombobulate something?

Thank for any assitance, Joe
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: G8B4Life on April 16, 2021, 10:51:58 AM
Or have I managed to discombobulate something?

Probably not. The LM-2S is certainly compatible with the ULT series of sound files but you need to have the correct version of the LM software loaded into the LM. I forget which version of the LM software introduced the ULT sound files but if the LM-2S isn't the latest version (2.09) then update it anyway. Also make sure your HC is up to date as well though I don't think that plays much role in it.

I'm going to guess that the file actually downloaded correctly from Ring, so a copy of it is stored in RailPro Assistant.

Check that a copy of the file exists on the HC (go to delete files and see if the ULT sound file shows up). If it's not there then the storage space on the HC is most likely near capacity and the ULT sound file won't fit (you can check this using the Tools and then Software update button). This should have thrown an error though if this happened. There is one other possible cause but I'll leave that one out for now as it's highly unlikely but if the file isn't on the HC and you have plenty of free space and the LM is up to date count how many sound files you have loaded on the HC.

If the ULT sound file exists on the HC then it's likely that the LM software version isn't correct (it shouldn't be a free space on the LM issue as it's not showing up available to copy).

- Tim
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on April 16, 2021, 11:38:34 AM
Hi Tim, thanks for answering me. Last night I downloaded the LM2 update (version 2.09) and installed it before I downloaded the ULT file. I am using the HC simulator with the CI-1 for the update. I'll check the HC Sim and make sure the UTL file is still there.

One strange thing that happened is that both the HC sim and the RP Assistant had more open space after the download than before.
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on April 17, 2021, 12:42:54 PM
It just keeps getting more frustrating. I have the ULT file downloaded into my GP30 (verified that it is in the LM), But I can't start the engine with either the HC simulator or an actual HC. The horn and lights work as expected.

Last night I wanted to install the same file in another engine. First I had to reload the ULT file into my HC simulator, For some reason it disappeared from the simulator. Everything went fine until after the file was loaded into the LM. Then I got a "could not verify" message.

I am on the verge of going to DCC. RP is driving me nuts.

2 days ago I sent Ring an email about some other issues and I still haven't heard back from him.
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: nodcc4me on April 17, 2021, 01:24:52 PM
Make sure you have the prime mover button set for the 567 ULT file. I'm thinking that when you deleted the original 567 file maybe you forgot to change the button setting.


Hang in there. Tim Ring will get back to you.
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on April 17, 2021, 03:01:44 PM
I wasn't aware that button could be or needed to be changed. I'll try that and see what happens.

Thanks again Tim.

Joe
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on April 17, 2021, 03:34:44 PM
Hi Tim, I changed the button to 567 UTL, and changed to the sound button, but still no luck with the engine sound. Using my HC I can move the engine, but only the lights respond to any buttons.

Joe
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: nodcc4me on April 17, 2021, 05:18:08 PM
The “could not verify “ message could indicate that the 567ULT file is corrupt. I would reload it on the HC Simulator and copy it over to the LM2s again.
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on April 17, 2021, 05:52:02 PM
First of all, I apologize Al, I didn't look at who was writing the text. Do I need to delete the 567 file before I load it again, or will the new file overwrite the old one?

Joe
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: nodcc4me on April 17, 2021, 06:31:25 PM
No problem, Joe. You don’t have to delete the file in the LM, but delete it from your RPA program. Since you are having the problem on both the HC and the Simulator, that would also indicate a file issue.


Download it again from the RPA server in case your existing file is bad. While you’re waiting for the download walk away and get a nice piece of cake and a cup of coffee and don’t go back for at least 35 minutes.  ;D
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: G8B4Life on April 18, 2021, 04:19:27 AM
I am on the verge of going to DCC. RP is driving me nuts.

If RP drives you nuts I don't think DCC will be for you!

Quote
2 days ago I sent Ring an email about some other issues and I still haven't heard back from him.

2 days is that all? Not trying to play it down but I'm still waiting on responses from a couple of years ago. In all seriousness 2 days isn't unusual. I sent in a bug report the other week, took 2 days to get an initial reply and then nothing further after providing further information.

Quote
Then I got a "could not verify" message.

Can you remember exactly what it said? there are two verify error messages in the HC software and they likely relate to different things.

- Tim
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: William Brillinger on April 18, 2021, 06:56:29 AM
Quote
2 days ago I sent Ring an email about some other issues and I still haven't heard back from him.

I keep telling people, if you need something from Ring, pick up the phone. You'll have immediate help.
Email from Ring is always the slow road.
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on April 25, 2021, 10:24:03 AM
Once again I apologize for not advising all of you what went on. I got to the point that my health was at risk from the anger that ensued from the lack of progress on a supposedly simple upgrade to the decoders. So I just walked away from it and basically resigned myself to all my engines sounding the same.

Yesterday I decided to try one last time. After going through the same procedure as before I finally got my GP-30 loaded with the 567ULT file and it actually sounds great. So then pushing my luck I tried to load the same program in my SW800. That got me right back where I was with the GP30, ie nowhere.

I think the biggest problem with all of Rings programs is that none of it is intuitive. If things followed a logical progression with instructions on one page that you could check off as you did each step, it would really simplify the upgrade process. I'm 72 and my memory and cognitive functions are diminished from a few years ago, which doesn't help matters.

And to answer Bill, the reason I send Tim an email is because that's how I used to communicate with him and always got an answer the same day. That obviously is not the current best procedure.

Joe

PS, I have over 35 years experience with DCC at our club.
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: nodcc4me on April 25, 2021, 12:19:35 PM
Joe, on the HC, touch Delete, and go to the SW800. Touch Sound, and see if the 567ULT is listed. If it is, touch Cancel. The problem is then in the HC settings for that engine. If it is not listed you have to copy it again from the HC.


Assuming the file is there, go to the button settings page on the HC and take another look at the prime mover button settings, making sure they are the same as the ones for the GP30. I’m sure you’ll find the problem.
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on April 27, 2021, 02:09:22 PM
I've managed to come up with a whole new problem now. I've been loading the 2.09 version program update to my LM2S modules. 3 of them worked fine, 3 of them got the "Verify Failed" error message and 1 got the "No Product Found message". On the last failure, I need to open up the engine and check connections.

I can't find anything related to Verification, any ideas?

Joe

I just fired up an HC and I didn't have any trouble with sounds or lights, so I don't think there is an issue with the engine.

I tried downloading the LM update again from Ring and got the same failure again.
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Tom on April 27, 2021, 05:30:49 PM
I do not know about the 567 ULT working on an LM-2S, but the Heavy Steam ULT will not work on an LM-2S.  The Heavy Steam LM-1 will work, so it could be the same for the 567 ULT.  And, as for steam, that may be why Ring does not have the old Heavy Steam on the RPA.
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: KPack on April 27, 2021, 07:03:36 PM
567 ULT works on the LM-2S.  I have a 2S with it loaded on it right now.  Works fine, plenty of room.

-Kevin
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: G8B4Life on April 28, 2021, 10:31:26 AM
I can't find anything related to Verification, any ideas?

As mentioned previously there are two verification error messages in the HC / HC Sim which likely relate to two different things. Are you able to remember the exact wording?

When a file is downloaded from Rings server, and highly likely when it's copied to an LM as well, RPA and the HC / HC Sim verify what was copied to what was stored in RPA / HC / HC Sim to make sure it matches. I believe this is done using a checksum on each packet of data. If the copied file doesn't match then this is probably the cause of the verification error. As to what could cause the copy not to match well how long is a piece of string? Probably the biggest one is having the HC / CI-1 more than 2 feet away. I think I got that error once when I was downloading something to an LM from the next room, probably some 15 feet and a wall between the CI-1 and the LM but never when the CI-1 and the LM were about the recommended distance or closer apart.

A very, very long shot could be an issue with the onboard memory in the LM where the data is not being written correctly but again that's a very long shot.

Something else it could be (shouldn't be but it's been too long for me to remember how this presents itself) is how full are the LM's that are failing the verification? The LM only has a finite amount of onboard memory and if the LM is loaded up with enough files that take up nearly all the space there won't be room left to copy the updated program. Again I don't think this should give the verification error but it's been too long for me to remember.

- Tim
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on April 28, 2021, 11:54:53 AM
Well, I had a little good news last night. Through several multiple downloads, I managed to get all 20 of my LM2s upgraded to the latest program. When I finished with that I tried to load the update for the 3 LM3s I have. Unfortunately, I was only able to complete 1 of them. The other 2 had issues making a connection with my computer. I'll have to open them up and see if there is an issue with the engines or the LM's.

At least now I can TRY to install the ULT sound files in the LM2s.

Thank you everyone for the answers and support, I really appreciate it.

I just wonder if some of my issues stem from the old computer I pressed into service for the downloads. It's one of our older ones that we upgraded from. It's a Lenova w/W8. It seems to work better if I repeat each task at least 4-5 times.  :D

I have been concentrating on building the layout for the last several years and put off the computer upgrades due to so much frustration. I have just about finished the layout on one side of the basement, and hopefully, I can start on the other side this year.

Joe
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on April 28, 2021, 01:14:30 PM
I knew it was too good to last. I downloaded the engine file to my HC sim, but when I try to send it to the engine it's not listed in the sim. It only shows diesel bell, diesel horn & diesel engine. The ULT file I loaded isn't there. And I did save it after the download. I had the same issue with 2 engines so far.
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: William Brillinger on April 28, 2021, 04:40:20 PM
Are you running the latest version of the HC Sim software?
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: William Brillinger on April 28, 2021, 04:41:31 PM
what steps are you taking to send the file to the LM?
I suggest removing any existing prime mover files from the LM before trying to copy a new one to it.
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: nodcc4me on April 28, 2021, 04:45:48 PM
Joe, if you were able to load the 567ULT into the GP30 then it has to be on the HC unless you deleted it.
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: MtRR75 on April 28, 2021, 09:03:45 PM
I've managed to come up with a whole new problem now. I've been loading the 2.09 version program update to my LM2S modules. 3 of them worked fine, 3 of them got the "Verify Failed" error message and 1 got the "No Product Found message". On the last failure, I need to open up the engine and check connections.

I can't find anything related to Verification, any ideas?

Joe

I just fired up an HC and I didn't have any trouble with sounds or lights, so I don't think there is an issue with the engine.

I tried downloading the LM update again from Ring and got the same failure again.

I have run into some of the same problems that you are having.  But first, know that I have only steam locos, and my problems related to trying to install the new ULT Heavy steam file.

I found that, once a loco had one of the messages that you got, the only thing that worked was to delete some of the files that were already on the LM.  In my case, I had several whistles and bells on some of the locos -- trying them out until I decided which to keep.  Removing these extra files fixed the problem.

Also, make sure that you have the LM the required distance from the HC-2 hand-held or the CI flash drive.
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: MtRR75 on April 28, 2021, 09:10:10 PM
I just wonder if some of my issues stem from the old computer I pressed into service for the downloads. It's one of our older ones that we upgraded from. It's a Lenova w/W8. It seems to work better if I repeat each task at least 4-5 times.  :D

Joe

You should be fine.  I am using a borrowed Windows 7 machine that has not been updated in a long time, and I have had not problems getting the files off the internet and into the HC-2 or the CI-1.
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on April 28, 2021, 09:14:16 PM
Are you running the latest version of the HC Sim software?

Yes I downloaded a new one tonight, but it didn't help any.
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on April 28, 2021, 09:23:15 PM
what steps are you taking to send the file to the LM?
I suggest removing any existing prime mover files from the LM before trying to copy a new one to it.

I'm upstairs at another computer now, but coming from my fragile memory, it's tools, software update, update program, save program, change button for engine, save. I've tried deleting the diesel engine before I downloaded the 567ULT, and also just tried to overwrite it, neither works.
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on April 28, 2021, 09:25:39 PM
Joe, if you were able to load the 567ULT into the GP30 then it has to be on the HC unless you deleted it.

I haven't deleted the 567 file, but it seems to either never actually get downloaded, or it just disappears.
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on April 28, 2021, 09:31:46 PM
I've managed to come up with a whole new problem now. I've been loading the 2.09 version program update to my LM2S modules. 3 of them worked fine, 3 of them got the "Verify Failed" error message and 1 got the "No Product Found message". On the last failure, I need to open up the engine and check connections.

I can't find anything related to Verification, any ideas?

Joe

I just fired up an HC and I didn't have any trouble with sounds or lights, so I don't think there is an issue with the engine.

I tried downloading the LM update again from Ring and got the same failure again.

I have run into some of the same problems that you are having.  But first, know that I have only steam locos, and my problems related to trying to install the new ULT Heavy steam file.

I found that, once a loco had one of the messages that you got, the only thing that worked was to delete some of the files that were already on the LM.  In my case, I had several whistles and bells on some of the locos -- trying them out until I decided which to keep.  Removing these extra files fixed the problem.

Also, make sure that you have the LM the required distance from the HC-2 hand-held or the CI flash drive.

The only files that were on any of my LM's were the ones that came with the modules. I have my computer on a desk with my CI-1 sticking out of the front of the case with my track and the engines sitting directly under the CI-1 9 1/2" apart.

The power supply that I am using puts out 11.6V, which was plenty to update the LM's
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on April 28, 2021, 09:34:06 PM
I want to thank you all for your help. I keep getting the feeling that my HC Sim is defective. Maybe I'll try downloading another one tomorrow.

Thanks again,
Joe
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: G8B4Life on April 29, 2021, 12:34:48 AM
I have my computer on a desk with my CI-1 sticking out of the front of the case with my track and the engines sitting directly under the CI-1 9 1/2" apart.

This could be part of your problem. The transmitter in the CI-1 is the same as in the LM and I'm sure not fully omni directional, ie I'm pretty sure the antenna doesn't transmit straight down through the circuit board it's soldered on top of. This would mean that with the LM directly under the CI-1 the signal is is going to the nearest wall/roof and bouncing back (with less power) to reach the LM, far more than two feet of distance I'd say. Try and have the CI-1 pointing directly at the LM (but don't put it in an external USB hub), it might clear up the verification problem.

I'm upstairs at another computer now, but coming from my fragile memory, it's tools, software update, update program, save program, change button for engine, save. I've tried deleting the diesel engine before I downloaded the 567ULT, and also just tried to overwrite it, neither works.

That's almost it. I'm sure you had it right when you were physically doing it but just to be sure: Tools -> Software Update  -> Update Program -> Select Product is for updating a products firmware. Tools -> Software Update -> Copy File -> Select Product is to copy a sound, light etc to a product. Once the file is copied then you change the file that the button controls.

You also can't overwrite a file (eg Diesel Engine) with a completely different file (eg 567 Ult). It doesn't work like that, you can only overwrite a file with the exact same name.

- Tim
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on April 29, 2021, 07:42:36 AM
This could be part of your problem. The transmitter in the CI-1 is the same as in the LM and I'm sure not fully omni directional, ie I'm pretty sure the antenna doesn't transmit straight down through the circuit board it's soldered on top of. This would mean that with the LM directly under the CI-1 the signal is is going to the nearest wall/roof and bouncing back (with less power) to reach the LM, far more than two feet of distance I'd say. Try and have the CI-1 pointing directly at the LM (but don't put it in an external USB hub), it might clear up the verification problem.

Tim that makes sense, but how did it manage to update all the LM2s modules to 2.09?

Joe
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: G8B4Life on April 29, 2021, 08:08:45 AM
Sheer luck? When you wrote

Quote
Through several multiple downloads, I managed to get all 20 of my LM2s upgraded to the latest program.

I took that as it took many tries to update all 20, ie they didn't all update successfully the first time you updated each of them and it took say 25 - 30 tries to update all 20 and then when you mentioned how you had the CI-1 set up directly above the LM...

While it can work being directly above it certainly wouldn't be helping any. Also the firmware for the LM is a lot smaller in size than the 567 ULT sound file so less chance for errors in the transmission as there's a lot less packets of data to be sent and received.

- Tim
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on April 29, 2021, 09:14:00 AM
Hi Tim,

My computer is a tower model. Do you think if I put the track and engine on top of the computer close to the CI1 it would work better, or would there be too many stray electrons from the computer interfering with the CI1's signal?

Thanks, Joe
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: G8B4Life on April 29, 2021, 10:42:53 AM
It may work better. There might be some RFI from the computers power supply but I doubt it'd be enough to cause an issue. If you had a WiFi adapter plugged into the back of the computer that'd be more cause for concern if it was running in the 2.4Ghz range (same range as RP). Personally I wouldn't do it for fear of knocking the model off the top of the case.

Since my setup is the same (tower case on a desk) I usually use a USB extension cable and point the CI-1 directly at the LM which is usually sitting a couple of feet away (across and below) from the PC . I've never had a problem that way but probably an overkill. Other times I don't use the cable but I've not been trying to copy larges file in that case, just small files like lighting effects.

- Tim
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on April 29, 2021, 04:55:09 PM
You may have hit the nail on the head. I do have a wifi adapter on the back of the computer. I was sure I had a USB extension cable around here somewhere, but I've looked all over for it and can't find it.

The closest thing to a computer store around here is Walmart and they don't stock that cable. I guess I'll order it online and wait. I'll check the wifi adapter and see what range it's in. Sounds like I had the perfect storm for unreliability going on. No wonder I had so much trouble.

Thanks again Tim.  :)
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on April 29, 2021, 08:21:15 PM
Hi Tim, it just doesn't get any better. I changed over to my w10 computer in the basement and started over with it. It's on the opposite corner of the basement and twice as far from the router, but it still works on anything else.

So I got it all set up, downloaded the 567ULT file on that HC sim, verified that it was in the right spot, and tried to load the file into an engine. I got a "No Program File" error. Tried another engine, same outcome.

It's gotten to the point where I would rather have another heart bypass operation than keep running into the same brick wall over and over.

Thoroughly disgusted Joe.
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: G8B4Life on April 29, 2021, 09:45:49 PM
Joe, I'm sure we'll work this out. If only someone had invented teleportation by now I'd come over and help in person.

Anyway, don't take this personally but are you sure you were pressing the right combination of buttons this last time?  I ask because "No Program File" is the error you get when you try to update the LM software (Tools -> Software Update -> Update Program) and you don't have the LM software in the HC / HC Sim. Since you were using a different PC is it possible that you hadn't downloaded the LM software from Ring on that machine (you only mentioned downloading the 567 Ult)?

To copy the 567 Ult file to the LM you need to Tools -> Software Update -> Copy File.

Also, what do you mean when you say "verified that it was in the right spot"?

. . .

As for the WiFi adapter on the Win 8 PC, with the adapter on the back of the PC, the CI-1 on the front and the LM also in front it's not likely to have been causing issues, I was more saying it could possibly cause some interference if you put the LM close to it by putting the loco on top of the PC case.

- Tim
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: KPack on April 29, 2021, 11:53:30 PM
Perhaps not as good as teleportation, but I think we can solve this by doing a video call.  Use Facetime, Zoom, or Google and one of us can connect with you and watch in real time as you go through the steps.

I think we're missing something simple here but without seeing what you're doing with our own eyes it's hard to say what it is.

-Kevin
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on May 01, 2021, 01:57:29 PM
Thanks for the replies and help guys. I had another issue crop up and it's going to take several days to sort out, so I'm going to have to put this on the back burner until I can focus on this mess again.

Joe
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on May 03, 2021, 10:39:59 AM
Well I thought I had it figured out. I got 5 engines updated with the 567ULT file, and everything worked as it should. I just tried to do another engine using the same procedure that worked before and when trying to upgrade to the ULT file on this engine and another one I got the "Not enough memory" failure. I checked the engine and it only had the standard Ring files, then I checked the HC sim and it only had the same standard files plus the ULT file.

Any ideas?

Joe
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: G8B4Life on May 03, 2021, 11:20:58 AM
Not enough memory is the error you get when there isn't enough free space on the LM for the file your trying to copy to it to fit. If the LM does only have the default files on it then the 567 Ult should fit. Unfortunately there isn't a way to actually see how much memory is being used / how much free space there is; you just have to start copying and hope!

Anyway, deleting some files from the LM that you know you won't use (like Diesel Engine, as your copying a new diesel sound) should fix the problem.

At least it looks like we solved the Could Not Verify problem.

- Tim
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: KPack on May 03, 2021, 11:29:50 AM
The LM-2S will not have enough memory to fit two prime mover files.  The LM-3S will.  However, there's no reason to have anything on the module that you're not going to use.  The first thing I do when I install a new LM module is to delete all the stock sound files.  That way I know I'm starting with a clean slate and will have plenty of room for everything that I could want to add.

-Kevin
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: ON28 on May 03, 2021, 11:37:43 AM
Can an old sound file be retrieved? If I'd rather use an old prime mover rather than a ULT file, is there a way to reinstall the old one after it was deleted? Is there an archive of RP sounds somewhere?
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: nodcc4me on May 03, 2021, 11:46:45 AM
The older files should all be in RPA. Both the ones from the server and the ones you have already downloaded.
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on May 03, 2021, 12:02:14 PM
Not enough memory is the error you get when there isn't enough free space on the LM for the file your trying to copy to it to fit. If the LM does only have the default files on it then the 567 Ult should fit. Unfortunately there isn't a way to actually see how much memory is being used / how much free space there is; you just have to start copying and hope!

Anyway, deleting some files from the LM that you know you won't use (like Diesel Engine, as your copying a new diesel sound) should fix the problem.

At least it looks like we solved the Could Not Verify problem.

- Tim

Tim I read one place that the new file will overwrite the old file, then I read another place that it would not. On the ones that worked it apparently overwrote the standard file. I'll delete the diesel engine file and see what happens.

Thanks, Joe
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on May 03, 2021, 12:17:20 PM
I deleted the engine sound file and it's now downloading the ULT file. It's weird that some will overwrite and some won't. Just another idiosyncrasy of Rings files I guess.

Thanks again everyone,
Joe
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: KPack on May 03, 2021, 01:43:26 PM
Files will only overwrite if the file name is EXACTLY the same.  So if you have "EMD 567-16 ULT" on the locomotive module, it will be overwritten if you upload another copy of "EMD 567-16 ULT". 

The only time this will be helpful is if there is an update to the sound file from Ring, then the old file will be overwritten when you upload the new.  This has happened several times in the past.  The 567 ULT file was one of those that was updated (tweaked the shutdown sequence) so if anyone had the old file it would have been replaced with the new if they happened to download it again.

-Kevin
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on May 04, 2021, 09:44:58 AM
Things are going somewhat better now, EXCEPT when I download an engine file I can use it all day, but it won't stay in the HC Sim overnight. The first time this happened I had shut the computer totally down. Since then if I have a file that I've been upgrading engines with during the day, I'll leave the computer on and turn off the monitor. The next day I go down to start up again and the engine file is gone and I have to do another download all over again.

I save the file after I get it into the HC, but it won't last overnight. What am I missing?

Joe
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: KPack on May 04, 2021, 09:57:28 AM
There is no "saving" files that get downloaded to the HC....they are just there.  There is no user input to save them.  So I'm not sure what exactly you're saying there.

When a file gets transferred (downloaded) from the RPA to the HC Sim, it saves in the HC Sim automatically by virtue of the file being transferred.  As far as I know there is no possible way that the file will be deleted from the HC Sim unless the user goes through the normal steps of deleting a file from the HC.

To check and see what files are actually on the HC Sim, go to the same page where you transfer files from, tap on "Delete Files", tap on the HC Sim, then scroll through the pages to see what files are actually there.  Also look at the "% Free Storage" to make sure your aren't almost maxed out. 

-Kevin
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: nodcc4me on May 04, 2021, 09:59:42 AM
No file should delete itself from the HC. Perhaps it is just not showing up when you try to copy it to an LM. That  happened to me once but not since. Try to find the file by going to the Delete File area and see if it shows up there. If it does, then there is a different problem within the HC. Also, see if that happens on both the HC2 and the HC Sim. If it happens on the HC2 you should call Ring. I'm sure he will ask you to send it in, as that is not normal. If it happens only on the Sim, delete the Sim, reboot and download it again.


Edit: Looks like Kevin and I are on the same page here and typing at the same time.  :D
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: G8B4Life on May 04, 2021, 10:46:31 AM
What you are describing is a symptom of HC Sim not having the correct permissions to write it's storage file back to disk when you close HC Sim. This should not be occurring unless your running an older version of HC Sim but we should be easily able to find out.

Are you using the latest version of HC Sim (2.10) ?

When you say you can use the downloaded file all day, do you close the HC Sim program in between work sessions or do you leave it running all day and then close the program at night when you finish up?

Here is a test for you to try.

- Start HC Sim like you normally would.
- Download a picture from Ring to HC Sim (pictures are small and don't take long).
- Confirm the picture is stored in HC Sim (by seeing if it shows up in delete files from HC Sim).
- Close HC Sim.
- Start HC Sim normally again and see if the picture still exists in HC Sim.

If the picture is NOT still in HC Sim after closing and starting it again then do all of the above again but run HC Sim as an administrator. Do this by right-clicking on HC Sim and selecting "Run as Administrator".

Let us know the outcome of the test when you run HC Sim as you normally do and if you had to run HC Sim as administrator.

PS, you do know that files you download from Ring are stored in HC Sim and RPA? As you've downloaded the 567 Ult sound file previously it should** be stored in RPA so you won't have to download it from Ring again but you can load it to HC Sim from the copy stored in RPA.

** RPA works the same way as HC Sim so it's possible that downloaded files are not being stored in RPA either if it's a permissions issue.

- Tim
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on May 05, 2021, 09:01:17 AM
When I get back from the Doctor this afternoon, I'll give you an update.

Thanks Joe
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on May 06, 2021, 08:23:50 AM
Better late than never.  :) Yesterday was a mixed bag of successes. 3 more engines have new sound, but one was a fail. I installed the 645UTL in one engine and it started up fine, then the RPM's went wonky. It would rev up, then slow down, then repeat, then make weird noises, then go crazy with the RPM's again. This all happened without any input from me. It was late last night, so I didn't fool with it anymore. This afternoon I'm going to delete the UTL file and copy it again and see if it is better.

It seems like there are more hurdles to jump every day.

In over 35 years of programming with DCC (which could be a real pain in the tookus at times), I can't remember having this many different issues accomplishing the task.

Joe
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Josephbw on May 06, 2021, 08:30:36 PM
There is no "saving" files that get downloaded to the HC....they are just there.  There is no user input to save them.  So I'm not sure what exactly you're saying there.

When a file gets transferred (downloaded) from the RPA to the HC Sim, it saves in the HC Sim automatically by virtue of the file being transferred.  As far as I know there is no possible way that the file will be deleted from the HC Sim unless the user goes through the normal steps of deleting a file from the HC.

To check and see what files are actually on the HC Sim, go to the same page where you transfer files from, tap on "Delete Files", tap on the HC Sim, then scroll through the pages to see what files are actually there.  Also look at the "% Free Storage" to make sure your aren't almost maxed out. 

-Kevin

Kevin, what I was referring to is that after almost every step I have to go to a "save" page and click on the link.
Joe
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Tom on May 11, 2021, 07:47:14 PM
Related to this sound file transfer issues thread: is there a file size the RailPro Assistant cannot find on a computer?  I recently successfully loaded a picture the Assistant and HC-2 recognized, but RPA could not “see” the WAV file no matter where I had it on the computer.  File size was 7,771 KB.
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: G8B4Life on May 12, 2021, 01:00:22 AM
Related to this sound file transfer issues thread: is there a file size the RailPro Assistant cannot find on a computer?  I recently successfully loaded a picture the Assistant and HC-2 recognized, but RPA could not “see” the WAV file no matter where I had it on the computer.  File size was 7,771 KB.

RPA can "see" any file regardless of the files size. At the "browsing for a file" stage it's just a filter on the file extension so if the extension doesn't match or is non existent RPA won't show the file. Are you sure the file has a wav extension (filename.wav) and isn't accidentally named filenamewav with no extension? It can be easy to do and overlook this, especially if one's eyes are tired.

- Tim
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: Tom on May 12, 2021, 07:44:40 PM
Thanks Tim.

I have been communicating with Ring via e-mail about trying to program an AM-1S: they have actually been quite responsive and helpful.   The Type of file I am using is a “Wave Sound (.wav)” on the General tab under file properties.

For RPUG information, it is more complicated than that.  A file can be too big, but how big is too big was unspecified.  And the problem with my (.wav) file is that it is two channel and RailPro only wants a one channel file: how to know if a .wav file is one or two channel and how to change it is unknown to me.  Also, RailPro likes files to be on the (C:) directory, apparently not too far down, like possibly a file in C:/temp.
Title: Re: Sound file transfer issue
Post by: G8B4Life on May 12, 2021, 10:51:52 PM
Okey Dokey, I can expand that a little.

A file is to big when it's to big to fit in the limited memory in an AM/LM/HC or disk space in RPA or HC Sim. All those values are different but for the problem you reported in that RPA could not "see" the file the size of your file was not an issue. You can load a 50 megabyte wav file into RPA and it's not an issue. Of course you wouldn't be able to use a file that big as it would never fit into an AM/LM/HC but RPA can see files that big because the size of the file doesn't come into play when your browsing for files.

Yes, RPA expects a mono wav file but that does not stop it seeing the wav file if it's not mono, RPA will throw an error when you try to convert the wav file into RP format if it's not mono but it won't stop RPA from seeing it.

Yes, RPA can only see things on the C drive (stupid I know) and yes there is an issue with how many directories (folders) on the drive that RPA can display. I forget the exact number of directories that RPA can show but if that number is n and c:\temp is n+1 then RPA won't show the directory, or any others higher than n, counting alphabetically.

If your wav file is not the correct format RPA will throw errors at you letting you know what is wrong when you try to convert it. As per the manual the wav file needs to be 16 bit, 44100Hz mono. To convert your file to this format you'll need an audio editor. Audacity is a good free tool for this. If you think it's a bit beyond your skill level asking here on RPUG for someone to convert it for you is likely to elicit a response.

- Tim