Post by: KB02 on February 02, 2022, 07:11:49 PM
I can’t get software, pictures, sound… nothing.
Post by: G8B4Life on February 02, 2022, 08:16:30 PM
Before we delve deeper, does it connect now; it's been while between your post and my post. If still not connecting, what version of RPA are you using? Have to ask that first as quite a while ago Rings IP address changed which means older versions of the software can no longer connect (that was ages ago but still some people still have old copies installed).
- Tim
Post by: KB02 on February 03, 2022, 05:55:41 AM
Post by: William Brillinger on February 03, 2022, 06:03:56 AM
Is the software running as administrator? (right click, run as administrator to test)
Is the RPA being blocked by windows firewall?
- https://www.windowsdispatch.com/check-windows-firewall-blocking-ports-programs/
- Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Windows Defender Firewall\Allowed apps
Post by: KB02 on February 03, 2022, 06:55:40 PM
As far as I can tell, it is being allowed through firewalls.
Still get either “Can’t connect to RE Server,” or “Could not read file from RE Server: RE Product Program List” (or category list, etc.)
BUT -
I can at least report this: the problem is with my computer. After going through the above, I dug out my old, outdated, still running XP, laptop - which also happens to have Railpro Asst. downloaded it, and that is working perfectly fine and my HC-2 is currently updating as I try this.
Gonna have to keep digging to figure out what’s going on with regular machine.
Post by: William Brillinger on February 03, 2022, 08:14:19 PM
Do a full shutdown of the PC, and turn the router & modem off for 5 minutes. Fire it up again and see if the problem persists.
Post by: G8B4Life on February 03, 2022, 09:08:08 PM
KB02, on the problem machine, does the blue info box with the RE logo -> Earth -> Computer picture say connected in green text or not?
My guess is that it is the firewall blocking the outgoing packets. Less likely is that something else has the port that RPA wants already.
- Tim
Post by: KB02 on February 04, 2022, 05:52:07 AM
Just about any place I have ever worked, I have always become known as the "tech guy." I've never had any formal training and am certainly not any kind of computer engineer. I've just always been able to figure stuff out. This one is baffling me, though. The firewall blocking outgoing packets seems like the most likely explanation, however, even when I turn the firewall off completely, I am still getting the same issue. - Don't worry, I turned it back on after this test and restored defaults.
Post by: G8B4Life on February 04, 2022, 06:26:25 AM
So what is happening is that when RPA starts it contacts Rings server, which responds and RPA shows that it is connected (green connected text is shown). Subsequent packets for some reason are either not making it to Rings server or the responses are not making it back.
What makes the scenario bizarre is that if it is firewall related it's letting the initial communication through and then blocking further packets.
We'll have to sort out the firewall first. You'll need to make sure RingEngAssistant.exe has unfettered access to the internet through the firewall. What AV/Firewall are you running? There's a few guides here I wrote quite a while ago now on letting RPA through various firewalls but they might not be of any use anymore, and I don't have access to a Win10 machine to write one for Windows Defender.
Edit: Ok, I just reread what you wrote and you said you tried with the firewall disabled completely. That does change things a little bit. I'll need to think some more.
- Tim
Post by: William Brillinger on February 04, 2022, 07:28:51 AM
Post by: KB02 on February 04, 2022, 04:50:17 PM
What AV are you running?
AV? Anti Virus? Not one at the current point in time. (I know. Bad me.) Malwarebytes is the only anti viral type program that we have currently.
And I should have stated that its a windows 10 machine with Firewall Defender.
Post by: G8B4Life on February 05, 2022, 03:56:51 AM
I can't think of any good reason for the bizarre behavior except for Windows Defender, which you say you tried disabling. I'd like to find out for sure though. As mentioned I haven't done a guide for allowing RPA through Defender, so you can follow this one:
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/70903-add-remove-allowed-apps-through-windows-firewall-windows-10-a.html (https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/70903-add-remove-allowed-apps-through-windows-firewall-windows-10-a.html)
On the "Allowed Apps" screen you'll need to scroll though and find the RPA entry. This may show as "RailPro Assistant" but more than likely it'll show as "RingEngAssistant.exe" (hopefully someone will confirm this for us). If it's there make sure at least the private checkbox is ticked. If you don't find either "RailPro Assistant" or "RingEngAssistant.exe" you'll need to add RPA as an exception as per the tutorial. It's location will be c:\Program Files (x86)\Ring Engineering\RailPro Assistant\
Once you've confirm that it's allowed through the firewall if it still doesn't work we'll have to go further down the rabbit hole.
- Tim
Post by: KB02 on February 05, 2022, 06:03:09 AM
Unfortunately, I'm going to have to leave it there for a few days. I'm heading out of town until Wednesday.
Post by: G8B4Life on February 07, 2022, 03:27:16 AM
So we know Defender is apparently set properly, that's good. Some cursory research says that MalwareBytes has changed since I last used it, and if you have a paid version it includes realtime protection. That could be the problem, though MalwareBytes is supposed to tell you when it blocks something.
If you have a paid version (or are still in the trial period) of MalwareBytes, as opposed to the free version (when the trial expires) you may need to add an exception for RingEngAssistant.exe to MalwareBytes.
Unfortunately I can't test this one before you get back, I don't think I have enough ram to spin up a VM anymore.
- Tim
Post by: KB02 on February 09, 2022, 06:39:54 PM
Maybe we're just looking at this from the wrong angle... Is there some way I can look at the background actions the computer is taking to see what/where the hang up is?
Post by: G8B4Life on February 09, 2022, 10:23:28 PM
We'll start with the easiest. This won't tell us what is being sent back and forth but should tell us if stuff is actually being sent back and forth.
- Download to a folder on your desktop LiveTcpUdpWatch from https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/live_tcp_udp_watch.html (https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/live_tcp_udp_watch.html).
- Unzip it an run it (it doesn't need to be installed). You'll need to run as administrator. Under Options make sure Capture UDP is enabled.
- Then after LiveTcpUdpWatch is running start RailPro Assistant (don't click anything in RPA yet, just start it).
When RPA is connected have a look at the LiveTcpUdpWatch screen and locate the RingEngAssistant process (probably the first line). It should have sent and received 2 packets each. The Sent Bytes should be 95 and the Received Bytes should be 131.
* The local port, remote port and remote address should be the same as shown.
Return to RPA and click the product programs button and wait until RPA gives you it's error. Look at the LiveTcpUdpWatch screen again and check the sent and received packets for RingEngAssistant. If it was successful (which it wont be) it should be showing 4 packets sent and 4 packets received and Sent Bytes 190 and Received Bytes 576.
If sent is not greater than 2 then something is blocking the outbound packets, if sent is more than 2 but received is not then something is blocking the reply, or the wrong information is being sent to Rings Server. What count do the sent and received packets have?
Next, we'll probably have to get much more technical but I'd like to see what LiveTcpUdpWatch reports first.
- Tim
Post by: William Brillinger on February 10, 2022, 07:05:48 AM
Post by: G8B4Life on February 10, 2022, 07:23:43 AM
Just for fun, did you shutdown our router and modem for 5 minutes like I suggested, I know Tim say's it cannot be the problem, but let's rule it out.
Not quite what I said; I said DNS could not be the issue ;) . That's not to say that there couldn't be another issue with the modem / router and by all means rebooting a modem/router should be a step taken in just about any unexplainable connection problem troubleshooting but given KB02 says it works from his other computer I figure the problem lies elsewhere, but as you say, let's rule it out if KB02 hasn't done it.
- Tim
Post by: William Brillinger on February 10, 2022, 07:33:10 AM
Post by: KB02 on February 11, 2022, 06:41:20 PM
I reset the modem, tried again and got 131 Received Bytes, 546 Sent, 2 Packets Sent and 13 received.
Post by: KB02 on February 11, 2022, 07:07:04 PM
Received Bytes 52, sent 635, Received packets 1, sent 12. AND, after only being open for a few seconds, RingEngAssistant goes straight to the "Error - Cannot Connect to RE Server" message.
I rebooted the computer and got the same thing.
Post by: G8B4Life on February 12, 2022, 01:19:53 AM
I can at least report this: the problem is with my computer. After going through the above, I dug out my old, outdated, still running XP, laptop - which also happens to have Railpro Asst. downloaded it, and that is working perfectly fine and my HC-2 is currently updating as I try this. ..
Hang on, something doesn't add up there, RPA hasn't natively run on XP since at least version 2.02 back in 2016, and I stopped providing patches to let RPA run on XP in about 2018 so how are you getting RPA to run on XP?
As for the Win10 machine, your result is what I expected to see in LiveTcpUdpView. It almost looks like something is mangling the packets of data. I may have to write a program to mimic RPA so we can see what the sent and received data actually contains. I need to think on the best way to do this.
I also tested MalwareBytes on a virtual machine (Win7, not Win10) without issue.
- Tim
Post by: William Brillinger on February 12, 2022, 06:04:19 AM
Post by: KB02 on February 12, 2022, 06:11:56 AM
Hang on, something doesn't add up there, RPA hasn't natively run on XP since at least version 2.02 back in 2016, and I stopped providing patches to let RPA run on XP in about 2018 so how are you getting RPA to run on XP?
My apologies. The old laptop is running Vista. It's the little Acer Aspire that wouldn't die. :)
Post by: KB02 on February 14, 2022, 04:41:19 PM
I spoke with one of our IT guys at work today and gave him the basic rundown of what I had going on (It was fun to watch him nearly vomit when I mentioned the laptop was on Vista ;D ). As a my machines are running through Wifi, one suggestion that he had was to plug the computer into the modem directly and try that way. IT WORKED! Yay! I unplugged the hard wire and went back to Wifi and the problem returned with it.
Okay - it has something to do with the Wifi. But why this newer and updated machine and not the old Vista machine running off the same modem?
We're getting there...
Moderator edit: Fixed BBC code in post that makes the font larger
Post by: William Brillinger on February 14, 2022, 05:14:18 PM
Post by: G8B4Life on February 15, 2022, 05:11:06 AM
back to what I said about router caches - did you turn the router off for at least 5 minutes before you restarted it?
I believe that was done, most people have an all in one modem/router but if KB02 has a separate modem and router then both should be restarted.
I reset the modem, tried again and got 131 Received Bytes, 546 Sent, 2 Packets Sent and 13 received.
- Tim
Post by: William Brillinger on February 15, 2022, 06:07:00 AM
Quote
reset the modem
A quick on and off is not the same. The word "Reset" does not necessarily mean it was off long enough to reset the cache.
Post by: KB02 on February 15, 2022, 08:35:18 PM
Post by: KB02 on February 16, 2022, 05:37:19 AM
Post by: G8B4Life on February 16, 2022, 08:41:38 AM
Anyway, I believe I've found a way to get the data on what's going through the WiFI adapter without you having to install anything. How comfortable are you with using the command prompt?
- Tim
Post by: KB02 on February 17, 2022, 07:40:43 PM
I've been trying to fiddle with the modem/router firewall settings but even with turning firewalls off there couldn't manage a connection. Granted not entirely sure what I was doing. Couldn't figure out how to set RingEngineering as an allowed site either.
As for the command prompt, I'm willing to give it a go. I've typed up a few DOS prompts in my time.
Post by: G8B4Life on February 18, 2022, 05:20:56 AM
We'll use a packet monitor tool that's built into Win10 to hopefully see what's going on.
First, open an elevated command prompt (you know the run as administrator thing. This is a must). Then, type in the following commands into the command prompt (you should be able to copy and paste them into the command prompt window):
Code: [Select]
pktmon filter add -t UDP -p 4608You can check the filter is active by typing in:
Code: [Select]
pktmon filter listStart running Packet monitor:
Code: [Select]
pktmon start --etw -p 0 -l real-time -f rpa.etlOnce Packet monitor is running, start RPA. You should see in the command prompt window that packets have been captured. If RPA doesn't connect, stop packetmonitor (if RPA does connect see below):
Code: [Select]
pktmon stopand then convert the log file to pcapng format
Code: [Select]
pktmon pcapng rpa.etl -o rpa.pcapngand upload the pcapng file here. If you you want to you can zip the pcapng file with a password, but you'll need to PM me the password.
If RPA connected, don't stop pktmon but click the product programs button in RPA. When that fails with it's error message then stop pktmon and convert the log file and upload it.
- Tim
Post by: KB02 on February 18, 2022, 09:12:35 PM
Start running Packet monitor:And I get the message:Code: [Select]pktmon start --etw -p 0 -l real-time -f rpa.etl
Code: [Select]
Error: '0' is not a valid event provider Id.
Post by: G8B4Life on February 18, 2022, 10:32:11 PM
Let's see what commands your version of pktmon uses (apparently there could be differences in versions). In an elevated command prompt type this in:
Code: [Select]
pktmon start helpand copy and paste the output here for me (clicking the icon in the top left corner of the command prompt window should give you access to select all and copy, possibly in an edit submenu).
- Tim
Post by: KB02 on February 19, 2022, 06:20:48 AM
[--pkt-size <bytes>] [--flags <mask>]]
[--trace --provider <name> [--keywords <k>] [--level <n>] ...]
[--file-name <name>] [--file-size <size>] [--log-mode <mode>]
Start packet capture and event collection.
Packet Capture
-c, --capture
Enable packet capture and packet counters.
-o, --counters-only
Collect packet counters only. No packet logging.
--comp { all | nics | id1 id2 ... }
Select components to capture packets on. Can be ALL components,
NICs only, or a list of component Ids. Default is ALL.
--type { all | flow | drop }
Select which packets to capture. Default is ALL.
--pkt-size <bytes>
Number of bytes to log from each packet. To always log the entire
packet set this to 0. Default is 128 bytes.
--flags <mask>
Hexadecimal bitmask that controls information logged during packet
capture. Default is 0x012.
0x001 - Internal Packet Monitor errors.
0x002 - Information about components, counters and filters.
0x004 - NET_BUFFER_LIST group source and destination information.
0x008 - Select packet metadata from NDIS_NET_BUFFER_LIST_INFO.
0x010 - Raw packet, truncated to the size from --pkt-size.
Event Providers
-t, --trace
Enable event collection.
-p, --provider <name>
Event provider name or GUID. For multiple providers, use this
parameter more than once.
-k, --keywords <k>
Hexadecimal bitmask that controls which events are logged
for the corresponding provider. Default is 0xFFFFFFFF.
-l, --level <n>
Logging level for the corresponding provider.
Default is 4 (info level).
Logging Parameters
-f, --file-name <name>
Log file name. Default is PktMon.etl.
-s, --file-size <size>
Maximum log file size in megabytes. Default is 512 MB.
-m, --log-mode { circular | multi-file | memory | real-time }
Logging mode. Default is circular.
circular New events overwrite the oldest ones when the log is full.
multi-file No limit on number of captured events, but a new log file
is created each time the log is full.
memory Like circular, but the entire log is stored in memory.
It is written to a file when pktmon is stopped.
real-time Display events and packets on screen at real time. No log
file is created. Press Ctrl+C to stop monitoring.
Example 1: Packet capture
pktmon start --capture
Example 2: Packet counters only
pktmon start --capture --counters-only
Example 3: Event logging
pktmon start --trace -p Microsoft-Windows-TCPIP -p Microsoft-Windows-NDIS
Example 4: Packet capture with event logging
pktmon start --capture --trace -p Microsoft-Windows-TCPIP -k 0xFF -l 4
Post by: G8B4Life on February 19, 2022, 07:23:03 AM
So, the command after adding the filter for you should be
Code: [Select]
pktmon start --capture --pkt-size 0 --trace --file-name rpa.etlYou won't get any live logging to the screen but when you put in the stop command after running RPA it should show you a summary on screen of how many transmit and receive packets there were.
- Tim
Post by: KB02 on February 20, 2022, 06:39:10 AM
Code: [Select]
Error: Event trace is enabled, but no providers are specified.I fiddled and searched and was finnaly able to get this to run:
Code: [Select]
pktmon start --capture --file-name rpa.etlNot sure if it will even be helpful or not, but I've attached the .pcapng file that I was able to get.
Moderator edit: pcapng file removed for privacy - Tim
Post by: G8B4Life on February 20, 2022, 09:13:13 AM
Anyway, the capture had everything I wanted in it. I've downloaded it and removed it from your post as it contains more than just RPA's traffic.
Now I'm assuming that RPA did NOT connect when you did the test? (tell me if it did because that's important).
So firstly the good news, there isn't any corruption of the packets, the data going in and out of the WiFi adapter for RPA is correct and the connection sequence is also correct.
Now to the puzzling part; unless the capture is somehow very wrong I'm seeing very strange behavior in the capture, something to do with the WiFi adapter is sending the data in and out repeatedly (usually 4 times) in very quick succession, and I mean nanoseconds! And not just RPA's data either.
So according to the capture RPA and the server negotiated a successful connection 4 times. Also strange is that even if not connected you clicking the pictures button did not get a response from the server which you should have gotten.
I'm looking into it further but it's a weird one for sure.
- Tim
Post by: KB02 on February 20, 2022, 03:55:05 PM
Post by: G8B4Life on February 21, 2022, 09:11:55 AM
So I believe I have found the problem, what I don't have yet is a why or a solution. I've never seen or heard of this before. Basically what is happening is that somewhere along the network stack the destination IP address is getting changed to the source IP address. In laymans terms this means that when you pressed that pictures button when you were doing that packet capture for me your computer was talking to itself and not with Rings server.
I'm also seeing a lot of of other weird stuff in the capture, such as packet out of sequence errors, MAC addresses that should not have the ID that they have and as already mentioned, the repeated sending of individual packets.
Can you do this for me? Open an elevated command prompt and type in
Code: [Select]
ipconfig /alland send it to me in a personal message. I'd like to see if those weird MAC address show and if it'll tell me what they are.
So I'm still looking for a why (I may have to join a tech forum to ask!) but a few other questions.
- Is this PC on 24/7 or do you turn it off at all (and not just hibernate etc)? If it's on 24/7 and you haven't turned it off since this thread started it'd be a good idea to turn it off and on and see if the problem persists
- What is the make and model of the Wireless adapter that the PC has?
- Are the drivers for the wireless adapter up to date?
- Tim
Post by: KB02 on February 21, 2022, 05:35:36 PM
Post by: G8B4Life on February 23, 2022, 09:11:51 AM
From your PM, yes, rebooting is the first step of IT, especially where Windows is concerned ;)
Unfortunately the info in the ipconfig didn't include any devices with those extra MAC addresses, oh while the make and model of the modem/router combo was good to know it was actually the make and model of the WiFi device on/in the PC I was after. If this is an internal device you can get it's name and model number from somewhere in the network settings.
Another round of questions spurred by looking at the packet capture;
Do you have any other networking device plugged into the PC, such as an access point, a switch, a router etc?
Are you running any virtualisation software, such as VirtualBox or VMWare?
Have you deliberately set the PC's Wifi adapter to be a hotspot or access point?
While I still don't have a why I am formulating a theory that can be tested. From the packet capture only RPA's traffic shows this issue, no other UDP traffic in the capture had the issue however unlike RPA the other UDP traffic doesn't have the same source and destination ports and I wonder if something at the layer 2 interface is getting confused by it?
- Tim
Post by: KB02 on February 24, 2022, 05:29:24 AM
...while the make and model of the modem/router combo was good to know it was actually the make and model of the WiFi device on/in the PC I was after.Ah. It is a Realtek RTL8723BE 802.11 bgn Wi-Fi Adapter
Another round of questions spurred by looking at the packet capture;
Do you have any other networking device plugged into the PC, such as an access point, a switch, a router etc?
- No
Are you running any virtualisation software, such as VirtualBox or VMWare?
- No
Have you deliberately set the PC's Wifi adapter to be a hotspot or access point?
- No
I just placed an order with Bill for a couple more LM3S modules (really good price!). Looking like I might have to use the old laptop to get them set up in the locos. :)
Post by: G8B4Life on February 24, 2022, 09:04:01 AM
You said in your PM that you had trouble with this WiFi adapter previously, what was the trouble if I may ask?
On the drivers, it's probably worth confirming they are up to date. Microsoft in their update catalog has the latest version as 2023.42.831.2016 (2016/02/10), and RealTek has 2023.56.0502.2017 (2017/06/26) on their website https://www.realtek.com/en/component/zoo/category/rtl8723be-software (https://www.realtek.com/en/component/zoo/category/rtl8723be-software)
I'll PM you with the experiment, probably tomorrow.
- Tim
Post by: KB02 on February 28, 2022, 05:53:03 AM
Post by: G8B4Life on February 28, 2022, 06:58:49 AM
I don't think the quality of your ISP's connection has much bearing on this, a bad connection would show up in other ways and would be the same on wired as it is with wireless. As it apparently doesn't happen when you plug an ethernet cable in between your PC and router and use that instead of wireless this puts the problem down to between the wireless NIC in your PC and the wireless Access Point in your router.
If we take the strange MAC addresses in the packet capture as the PC's wireless NIC and the routers AP using MAC randomisation this puts the problem squarely on the router as the culprit of changing the the destination IP address. I suspect that due to the amount of wireless traffic coming from your PC (remember, each individual packet from your PC is being sent at least 4 times instead of just once) that it's somehow stuffing up the routing table in the router.
Anyway, your post seems to indicate that the problem is solved, so what did you do and is it still happening?
- Tim
Post by: KB02 on March 01, 2022, 06:02:05 AM
As for my problems connecting RailPro Asst. on this machine, it is still going on. I just got a couple new modules from Bill and have been using the old laptop t get them set up.
Post by: G8B4Life on March 01, 2022, 06:58:42 AM
Anyway, I've still not heard anything back on that other forum I asked on, time to try a more technical form I think.
In the meantime, I've overcome my slackness and readied the experiment for you. Details in a PM.
- Tim
Post by: KB02 on March 20, 2022, 06:31:56 AM
Post by: William Brillinger on March 22, 2022, 02:35:28 PM