RailPro User Group
RailPro => RailPro Specific Help & Discussion => Topic started by: Wayne on February 28, 2016, 06:28:03 PM
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I am new to RailPro and have a question on the PWR-56 module. I am running my train on a shelf through 3 rooms of my house. The single line is about 113 feet. I was running a Digitrax Zephyr Xtra which powered the line no problem. I have added LM2S modules to a Athearn BB Cw44-9 and a Bachmann 2-6-0 Mogal. They run fine until about half way using the Zephyr for power, I ordered and installed the PWR-56 module and now they only run about 15 to 20 feet. Will I need to add more PWR-56 modules? According to the manual the HC-2 will only work with up to 4 PWR-56's. My 4 blocks would be just about 28 feet each.
Any suggestions or should send this question to RailPo?
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Sounds like a voltage drop problem. Are you using a power bus (heavy wire) or are you relying on just the rails and joiners to conduct power? What size and length wire are you using to hook the PWR-56 (or Zephyr) to the rails?
PWR-56 is powered by a PA-2 power supply which is 14v @ 4A. Zephyr is 13V @ 3A. Not enough difference to worry about. Something else is the culprit.
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An additional clue: When the loco gets to the point where it stops moving what color is the Radio icon on your controller? Blue means the controller is in communication with the module, red means communication has been lost.
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Is your power supply located at the end of your run?
Ideally the power supply will be located in the middle of the run with a buss extending in both directions from it. My longest run is about 63ft with a 16ga buss wire.
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with the power on, check the voltage at the ends of the run with a voltage meter or test light. If you do not have either one, you can use a quarter to short out the rails. If you are getting power, the quarter should temporarily cut the power to the PWR-56.
The walls may be blocking the radio signal to the other rooms but as long as there is power to the rails, the engine should not stall. You would have a runaway if it is not getting a radio signal.
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Thanks for the replies and suggestions.
Yes I have a 20 gauge bus running the length of the track. with feeders (small like switch machine wire) every 6 feet or so.
The PWR-56 is at the beginning of the bus, then the bus goes in both directions from there.
Yes the Icon turns Red? but I am in the same room? I have the PWR-56 set as a repeater also, is that a mistake?
I will try the quarter trick when someone is here to watch the power light for me.
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Oh one more thing. On the HC2 when I go to Accessories, select the PWR-56 and go to Info. There is no Current, it stays at 0% even if a engine is moving. It also says OK No Faults.
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This really does sound like the loco's are loosing power, but 15 to 20' is a short distance.
So, let's eliminate a couple more variables with a couple more questions.
Did the loco's run fine before conversion to RailPro?
Your Zephyr and your PWR-56 aren't connected at the same time? Just asking...
How is your PWR-56 mounted, vertically (like on the side of a post) or flat (same plane as the benchtop)? It must be mounted flat for some reason.
This one possibly matters, did you set the current for the LM-2S's?
Also give this a try, once you set one of the loco's going, go to the info screen for the loco and watch the motor current and track voltage graphs until it looses communication, they might tell us what's going on better.
20 gauge isn't really large enough for a power bus of the size (length) you've got. Ring recommends at least 16 gauge for runs of up to 30'.
Without knowing the actual size of your droppers I can't say if they are really large enough either
If you do the shorting test be aware that with such a small gauge power bus the PWR-56 probably won't detect the short as some distance away from the PWR-56.
- Tim
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It could also be loco pick up issues and,or,dirty track. Does the BB Athearn still have the old sintered wheels? How does the Bachmann pic up power? The LM-2 seems very sensitive to poor pickup, as the slightest interruption will give you the red icon. Just another thing to look at.
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Checking the info screen as the unit runs will tell the story.
Beef up that bus. 20ga is definitely too small. If you took 12 or 14ga wire and ran it along under the layout connecting it to your existing bus every 10 ft, I bet your problem would be gone.
You could test this by taking the heavier wire and connecting it to your bus near the power supply and about 10 ft from the end of the bus run. You could probably just use a household extension cord that you have on hand for the test.
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I thank you all for the help.
I just have the PWR56 connected. I just used a multi meter and it reads 14.55 volts all the way around. I put 16 gauge wire to my test track and it read 14.55 also.
All of my Athearn's have been re powered with A-line 90321 motors.
Being how this is direct radio, could my WiFi router be interfering?
I will have to find a good time to shut down the WiFi and try it then.
Should the bus wire be solid or stranded? Should I use the 20ga for the feeders?
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My bus wire is 16ga stranded.
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Wayne,
You won't see any voltage drop on your bus or track without having a load (a running loco, or a bulb or similar) on it. that's why your seeing the full 14.5v all the way around.
Try running one of the loco's and watching the info screen and watch the current and voltage graphs. Let us know what happens.
Is the WiFi router in the same room you have trouble? Can you run the loco's in any of the other rooms? Your WiFi could be inducing interference, though the LM2-S and HC-2 should accept it no problems. You may end up having to turn the WiFi output power down.
Solid or stranded bus is personal preference really. Stranded will take more abuse from any repeated flexing etc. My bus (when I actually build something) will be the equivalent of ~12 gauge. Feeders can be much smaller, even down to about 28 gauge as long as they are kept short, like 6 inches or less.
- Tim
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Okay here is what happens on the information page as a loco is running.
Motor Current is between 4 and 8 when it stops.
Voltage is Good mid to low range.
Temp is good.Fault line says OK No Faults then goes to Low Voltage.
Engine running with sound track voltage is between 14.5 and 14.3.
Turning WiFi off did not make a difference.
I have the pwr56 mounted flat On Top of a shelf not under it, do you think that has anything to do with it? Otherwise I guess I will rewire with heavier wire.
Will 16g work for the bus and the 20g for feeders?
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Running a second bus to beef up the existing one will save you from re-connecting feeders.
A simple test to confirm that the 16ga wire will solve the issue would be to take your 16ga wire, and run it to the place where the locos stopped. connect it to the track with some clips and to the existing bus at the power supply and see if you low voltage problem goes away. Do not disconnect the existing bus wire.
If this works, wire the new bus to the old bus every 5 or 6 feet.
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Okay gang. I have replaced the first 34 feet of bus wire, now 14g with 20g feeders. Now the PWR56 is shown RED (short). I have checked the feeders and all are correct.
Any Ideas?
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We'll get you through this....
I didn't think it was possible to get 14 gauge wire into the terminals on a PWR-56 so first off, check that there are no strands from the wire that didn't make it properly into the terminals and are touching.
Secondly, Red could mean two things so we'll try some trouble shooting from the manual.
First, disconnect one of the track bus wires from the PWR-56. If the LED turns yellow once you disconnect one of the wires then you do have a short in your wiring somewhere which you'll need to find.
If it stays red, then check the info page for the PWR-56 on your controller. I doubt that's it's an overtemp issue but it's worth checking.
- Tim
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I found a feeder from the old buss that did not get cut.
Now I have a green light.
I tinned the wires before plugging into the pwr56.
Now to continue adding feeders in this section before moving to the next.
Will keep you posted.
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I found a feeder from the old buss that did not get cut.
Something doesn't add up here. The old bus and the new bus should be the same polarity. You may want to examine all of your bus wiring for correctness.
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I have isolated one room from the others (disconnected track and old bus). Ran the new 14g bus (red & black) in that room. Ran 20g feeders (inside rial=yellow to red bus / outside rail=blue to black bus). yes I double checked it. Powered up the pwr56 get red light. ran over track with magnet looking for loose track nail wire anything that will short it, Zip tied wires away from track. Check and get green light. Put loco on track get track under voltage and red light on pwr56.
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After you ran the magnet over the track did you do anything different to get the green light? Did you try another locomotive? Maybe the locomotive is shorting it out.
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Hello Group, Just wanted to post an update on my wiring issue. Taking bits and pieces of everyone's suggestions this where I am at.
1. Using a 14g buse with 16g going to the PWR56.
2. 20g feeders from track to buse. After trying suitcase connetors, I found that they just did not cut through the wire insulation. I found stripping the insulation, wrapping the wire and soldering worked best.
I am happy to report that I am done with the first room, no red lights about 20% motor current, voltage is in the good range and temp is good.
I want to thank the group for their support and help.
Wayne
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Glad to hear you are having success.
While IDCs work for a lot of folks, your situation is one of the reasons why I don't use them. Although, I am inclined to ask if your IDCs have the necessary wire gauge range for the wire you are using and if you are closing them with actual IDC pliers. Assuming both, needing to verify a connection was made inside them each time is necessary and often a PIA. IDCs are convenient, and people sure do love convenience, but as you have found out they are sometimes not as foolproof as they seem. Soldering on the other hand, is 100% reliable. No need to verify a connection made.
My feeder connect system. IDC users, you wish you had this level of reliability. 8)
(http://www.lkorailroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/DSC_0225.jpg)