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RailPro => RailPro Specific Help & Discussion => Topic started by: KPack on November 05, 2016, 06:57:46 PM

Title: CI-1 and USB woes
Post by: KPack on November 05, 2016, 06:57:46 PM
I mentioned this problem in this thread (http://rpug.pdc.ca/index.php/topic,274.0.html (http://rpug.pdc.ca/index.php/topic,274.0.html)), but in an effort to make it easier for others to find the solution to the same problem I'm having, I wanted to start a separate thread.

I'm still unable to get my CI-1 and the HC Sim program to synch up on my laptop.  The CI-1 installs fine, and shows up in the list of connected devices, but no matter what I try I cannot get the HC Sim program to recognize it. 

Here's the specs for the laptop:
-Intel I-7   2.7GHz
-16GB RAM
-Windows 10 64-bit (fully up-to-date)
-3x USB 3.0

Things I've done so far:
-uninstalled and reinstalled all USB drivers
-turned off all power management on the USB ports (should be constant power all the time)
-maxed out all my power settings for the laptop
-uninstalled CI-1 and reinstalled multiple times, with and without restarting the computer
-uninstalled and reinstalled the HC Sim program multiple times, with and without restarting

The computer recognizes the CI-1 but the HC Sim program doesn't:
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk131/freewake_2008/CI-1%20problems_zpsokp732in.png)

I'm about out of ideas now.  I have absolutely no idea what is going on here.  I have never had any problems with any other USB device on the laptop ever.  The CI-1 works fine on my desktop also running Windows 10.

-Kevin


Title: Re: CI-1 and USB woes
Post by: William Brillinger on November 05, 2016, 07:11:08 PM
Kevin, Have you turned off your anti-virus software and firewall to test it?
Title: Re: CI-1 and USB woes
Post by: KPack on November 05, 2016, 07:29:21 PM
Yep, no difference.  I've made exceptions to allow HC Sim through the firewall, as well as turned off the firewall and antivirus completely to no avail.

-Kevin
Title: Re: CI-1 and USB woes
Post by: William Brillinger on November 05, 2016, 07:34:27 PM
How about a clean install?  (I'd do this on a spare hard drive if you have access to one)
Or perhaps installing a fresh copy of windows in a VM and trying it from there?
Title: Re: CI-1 and USB woes
Post by: Alan on November 05, 2016, 07:42:47 PM
Try this...
In Device Manager for CI-1, disable "Allow computer to turn off this device to save power".
Title: Re: CI-1 and USB woes
Post by: KPack on November 05, 2016, 09:48:12 PM
Alan, the CI-1 doesn't show up in the list under "Device Manager" specifically.  I went through and made sure all the USB controllers and hubs had that option turned off, and I did the same for all HID (Human Interface Device) devices and controllers.  Restarted the computer and still nothing.

Like it shows in the picture above, the USB port is recognizing and installing the CI-1 but from there it seems there is a disconnect between that and the actual HC Sim program.

-Kevin
Title: Re: CI-1 and USB woes
Post by: G8B4Life on November 05, 2016, 10:18:13 PM
Kevin,

Just to eliminate another variable, even though HC Sim doesn't show the CI-1 as installed:

1. Have you tried using HC Sim anyway? Silly question I know but I have to ask; if there was an issue that prevented the correct "CI-1 installed" picture from displaying (it's only a bmp file) many people would go no further even though it might actually be working.

2. With HC Sim open and the CI-1 plugged in does RailPro Assistant show USB connected or not; If RPA shows connected but HC Sim doesn't then it's a real mystery.

What brand Laptop and model is it?


Edit: Ok, ignore question 2, RPA will show USB connected when HC Sim is open regardless of whether the CI-1 is connected or not. If RPA showed USB not connected when HC Sim is open then that's a mystery.

- Tim
Title: Re: CI-1 and USB woes
Post by: G8B4Life on November 06, 2016, 04:55:03 AM
Some further thoughts on this.

You haven't said what USB ports your desktop has (USB 2 or 3) which everything works on. It would be handy to know.

First we'll go through a couple of other things that I'm sure you've tried but I'll still ask.

Have you tried disconnecting all other USB devices connected to the laptop and then trying HC Sim? There shouldn't be any conflicts but you never know.

If your using an extension cable, have you tried without the cable?

Ok, with that over I've studied the code in the HC Simulator software that detects if the CI-1 is attached or not. It's pretty simple though I haven't followed it completely. Unfortunately I can't remotely debug HC Sim for you and see what's it's doing when trying to connect to your CI-1. There is a couple of things we can find out though that'll give us a head start.

Download and unzip to a folder somewhere convenient the USB Devices View utility from http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usb_devices_view.html (http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usb_devices_view.html). It's freeware and runs without installing. The download link is near the bottom and you'll need the 64 bit version of course. Run the program (you may need administrator privileges) and you should get a screen like this:

usbview start run.png

In this instance on my PC I have three copies of the CI-1 showing, one each for each USB port I've had it plugged into and one for VirtualBox. I imagine you'll have three copies showing, one for each USB port on the laptop.

First thing to check is that one of them is showing green when the CI-1 is plugged in. If none show green then that requires a much more in depth analysis.

Presuming one is green, scroll sideways and take note of the value of these columns for the green one:

Connected (should be Yes), Disabled (should be No), Vendor ID, Product ID, Driver Filename (should be hidusb.sys) and Driver Version. The Vendor ID should be 04d8 and the Product ID should be f321 as shown in the next image. If either of these don't match then HC Sim will never see the CI-1.

usbview vispid.png

If Driver Filename is blank or something else is in there then we've got to fix that. The driver version might be helpful for seeing if a specific version of the driver is a problem.

Now this should never ever happen, but no other device listed should have the same Vendor ID AND Product ID as the CI-1.  It doesn't hurt to quickly scroll and check though it is a sure bet wild goose chase to do so.

Another thing you can try is uninstalling each copy of the CI-1 directly from the utility (CI-1 unplugged); it'd probably do a better job than Windows itself. I'd do this is none are showing green with the CI-1 plugged in.

If everything matches then the next step is likely the HID.dll that HC Sim uses to communicate to the CI-1 but I'm still working on that one, it's not an overly simple process to fix with a few entries to be made via the command prompt, or whatever Win10 call's it.

- Tim
Title: Re: CI-1 and USB woes
Post by: nodcc4me on November 06, 2016, 07:39:33 AM
Kevin, just for kicks, and since you've tried everything else, open the simulator using "Run as Administrator".
Title: Re: CI-1 and USB woes
Post by: KPack on November 06, 2016, 10:35:59 AM
Tim - I mentioned it earlier, but on the laptop they are all USB 3.0.  My desktop has 2.0.  Also:

-I've tried the HC Sim anyways and it doesn't detect any locomotives even though I am right next to them.  The desktop is three rooms over and detects them.
-I've tried with and without an extension to no effect.  The extension was USB 2.0
-Brand of laptop is a Sager....basically a Clevo clone, a custom built laptop.  The "Sager" name is just the chassis design....everything else is name-brand components of my specification
-Al, I have also run as Admin with no change.

Tim, I downloaded USBDeview and confirmed that all is correct.  The Vendor ID, Product ID, driver file, etc is all as it should be.  It is not disabled.  The only thing that is different is that only 1 instance of the CI-1 shows up....I have 3 USB ports and it is installed on all.  However, only one shows up at a time....and I have it set to show installed but unconnected devices:
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk131/freewake_2008/Railpro/Untitled%20picture_zpsqzvatddt.png)

So where do I go from here?

-Kevin
Title: Re: CI-1 and USB woes
Post by: William Brillinger on November 06, 2016, 02:00:26 PM
...as a work around in the mean time, If you have a "Pro" version of windows on the desktop, you can use remote desktop to log into the pc from the laptop and control it from there. At least then you'll be mobile.
Title: Re: CI-1 and USB woes
Post by: G8B4Life on November 06, 2016, 04:09:55 PM
Kevin,

Can you please right click and select properties on the CI-1 in the USB Devices view utility and post a screenshot of the screen that comes up? I noticed that the description is showing as "USB Input device" on your Laptop and not "USB Human Interface device". This may just be how Windows 10 reports it (I don't have 10 to check) but I'd like to see the rest of the details reported for the CI-1. Can you confirm that your desktop shows exactly the same info for the CI-1 in USB view as your laptop does?

- Tim
Title: Re: CI-1 and USB woes
Post by: Dean on November 06, 2016, 05:38:56 PM
If you can, download a fresh copy of HC Sim. Then uninstall the old HC Sim. When done shut the computer off and let it sit for a minute or two. This ensures that there is nothing left in memory. A reboot leaves everything in memory.  Then try to reinstall HC Sim.
Windows is notorious for screwing up program installs and drivers.
Title: Re: CI-1 and USB woes
Post by: KPack on November 06, 2016, 09:27:55 PM
Tim - Here's the page you requested:
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk131/freewake_2008/Railpro/test_zpslrhme92b.png)

It appears the same on the desktop computer.  I didn't see any differences.  One thing I noticed that was odd (on both of them) was that if the CI-1 was plugged in prior to turning on the USBDeview it wouldn't show up in the list.  However it still worked on the desktop like normal.  When I unplugged and reconnected it on both computers it then showed up in USBDeview's list.

Dean - I'll give that a go right now and see what happens.  I may have tried this in the past but I honestly can't recall.  I've been dabbling with this on and off since I recieved the CI-1.

-Kevin
Title: Re: CI-1 and USB woes
Post by: KPack on November 06, 2016, 11:40:56 PM
Dean, that didn't work either.  Uninstalled both, shut everything off for a while, and installed the CI-1 first then the HC Sim with a fresh download.  No dice.

-Kevin
Title: Re: CI-1 and USB woes
Post by: G8B4Life on November 07, 2016, 07:32:07 AM
I'm a bit over tired right now; I really should be asleep so if I babble and make no sense, forgive me.

One thing I noticed that was odd (on both of them) was that if the CI-1 was plugged in prior to turning on the USBDeview it wouldn't show up in the list.  However it still worked on the desktop like normal.  When I unplugged and reconnected it on both computers it then showed up in USBDeview's list.

That behavior does sound very odd and it makes me wonder but it could of course just be how Win10 does things. Comparing your screen capture to what I get the important parts are more or less the same, though calling it USB input doesn't make any sense whatsoever, however the strange part is no USB port is showing for it, compare yours to mine (magenta arrow). This could also be a Win10 thing but it's strange not to show it.

tims ci-1.png

I seem to remember a couple of others here have Win10 as well. I'd really appreciate it if someone with Win10 could download the USB Device View utility and make a screen capture of the CI-1 properties as explained in my previous post and message it to me (pm it me). I'm interested in seeing if this no-show USB port is limited to your setup or not and what WIn10 calls the device.

I really wish I had a way right now to see what information is being returned to the HC Simulator software by the system when it tries to connect to the CI-1.

I apologise, I want to write out the next steps I want you to take (looking for the hid.dll file) but I've got to get to bed.  :(

- Tim
Title: Re: CI-1 and USB woes
Post by: G8B4Life on November 09, 2016, 08:03:38 AM
Well, Al graciously sent me a screen capture for his CI-1 on Win10. The good news is that it's exactly the same info as shown for Kevin. The bad news is it's the exact same info as shown for Kevin so no clues there unfortunately.

Kevin, another thought is I know your Win10 is up to date but what about the chipset drivers for the Laptop. It might pay to check Sagers website and see if they have a new version of the chipset drivers for your laptop. https://www.sagernotebook.com/drivers.php (https://www.sagernotebook.com/drivers.php) .

Something else to try (it's a long shot) is to turn off fast startup if it's enabled and see if it works. A little write up and how to turn off fast startup. http://www.howtogeek.com/243901/the-pros-and-cons-of-windows-10s-fast-startup-mode/ (http://www.howtogeek.com/243901/the-pros-and-cons-of-windows-10s-fast-startup-mode/) . Turning this off has reportedly gotten USB devices working properly. The reports were all hard drives but everything is probably worth trying at the moment

So I'm still looking into this, though I just might be asking on a forum where a lot of tech minded people hang out for some fresh ideas.

- Tim