RailPro User Group
RailPro => RailPro Specific Help & Discussion => Topic started by: Archive on October 09, 2015, 05:37:15 PM
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Originally posted by Shawn Hogan on the RailPro Users Yahoo! Group on Jul 24, 2015
Hello Group,
Is anyone using a power supply other than what is supplied with a starter kit?
If I have a filtered DC power supply set to the correct voltage, would that be OK?
Battery power?? I'm looking at running a layout in a building that's "off the grid"(no connection to commercial power).
Thank you, Shawn
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Originally posted by William Brillinger on the RailPro Users Yahoo! Group on Jul 24, 2015
Battery or a filtered DC power supply will be fine as long at it provides the correct voltage.
The only issue is that you will lack the short circuit protection that the RP power supply offers.
- Bill
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Originally posted by TS on the RailPro Users Yahoo! Group on Jul 24, 2015
ot to put a dampener on Bills reply, but you really want a regulated
(not just filtered) supply, otherwise with a lot of loading your track
voltage might drop too far to be usable. Other than that any DC supply
that outputs in the acceptable range would be fine.
You may or may not loose short circuit protection (a lot of supplies
do haver them built in) but you will loose the repeater function as
your supply won't have one, and loose the ability to turn the track
power on and off with the controller.
As for battery power, yes this does work too but I'm not aware of
anyone who has actually done it with Railpro yet. Generally the size of
the batteries and the pain of recharging them is probably the biggest
stumbling block.
Cheers,
Tim
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Originally posted by LK&O on the RailPro Users Yahoo! Group on Jul 24, 2015
I am using a generic 15V 7A switching power supply. Works fine. For short circuit protection I built electronic circuit breakers for each power district. Details here: http://www.lkorailroad.com/circuit-breaker-and-block-detector-final-units/
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Originally posted by Shawn Hogan on the RailPro Users Yahoo! Group on Jul 28, 2015
Thank you all for your help! My apologies for not saying so sooner! I've been rather busy at work and home the last couple days.
I guess my question stemmed from the fact that I have a power supply that I used with an amateur radio station a few years ago. It works perfectly and I was thinking I might be able to put it to good use again.
At what voltage and amperage does the Rail Pro system operate?
Any information as to how many feet of track can be be powered with one PWR-56 power supply?
Do you need feeders every so often like with a DCC system?
Thank you, Shawn
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Originally posted by William Brillinger on the RailPro Users Yahoo! Group on Jul 28, 2015
Shawn,
I have feeders to every piece of track on the layout.
I only run 4 to 6 locomotives at one time.
I have 304ft of Mainline Run and 207ft of sidings
My PWR-56 is located at the 1/3 and 2/3's point between the ends of my point to point layout.
The longest theoretical distance away from the power supply is 56 feet.
Short protection has been tested at the far ends and it passes (This is important)
Let me explain the location of my PWR-56. My trackplan overlaps at a certain point that allows me to effectively locate my power supply where the length of run is split evenly 3 ways.
In this diagram, the bus runs are shown in different colours for clarity. They interconnect at the Power Supply and are joined at the end of the orange and purple lines, so the power has multiple routes to all of the locations.
http://www.pdc.ca/personal/Blog%20Images/2015-07-28%20BNML%20Trackplan%20power%20distribution.jpg
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Originally posted by TS on the RailPro Users Yahoo! Group on Jul 28, 2015
Hi Shawn,
Well I thought I'd get the first answer in but Bill beat me to it, but
his message does give an important hint on where to place your
power supply.
Ring's documentation states a maximum of 18 volts. The minimum who
knows; it's not stated anywhere I can find. The Amps, well that could
be as little as will run one locomotive or enough to power everything
in your house; your trains will only draw the power they need but
when a short happens a lot of Amps at your disposal will cause a lot
of damage very quickly without a short protection system than can
react even quicker than you can blink an eye. I'd recommend no more
than 3 amps.
The PA-2 power supply included with the PWR-56 outputs 15 volts. It's
about half a volt less on the track output.
If your supply is within acceptable range it will work, though if it's
not regulated it might not work as well as expected with a full load on
it.
I haven't set anything up myself but yes you'll need droppers and I
guess you'll need just as many droppers as with DCC or any other
system; the more the better. I actually tried to get a resistance
measurement of a length of rail the other day (to work out voltage drop
of the rail) and I couldn't even get a stable reading. A decent sized
bus with a good amount of droppers will give you more enjoyment and
supposedly less frustration in the long run anyway.
Cheers,
Tim
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Originally posted by Shawn Hogan on the RailPro Users Yahoo! Group on Jul 28, 2015
Bill,
Each color represents a set (+/-) or pair of wires, correct? What gauge did you use for the bus pair?
Maybe this question doesn't apply here but do you(and anybody else reading this thread) use a feeder wire on every section of rail or if using flex track, then every section of flex. The last layout I built, we soldered every other set of rail joiners. Seemed to work OK.
Shawn
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Originally posted by William Brillinger on the RailPro Users Yahoo! Group on Jul 28, 2015
Shawn,
Yes, each colour represents a pair of +/- wires.
I used stranded 18GA wire and stranded 22GA feeders with suitcase connectors.
I would have used 16GA but 18 is what I had.
I have feeders to every piece of flex track.
I only soldered my flextrack together on or at curves.
- Bill
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Originally posted by LK&O on the RailPro Users Yahoo! Group on Jul 28, 2015
Every piece of my track has a feeder including frogs and points. All rail joiners are soldered except at module connections. 12 AWG bus, 24 AWG feeders (12" or less). All connections are soldered, ring terminal soldered, or screw gate barrier blocks. Overall bus length is roughly 120' point to loop arrangement. A 1A resistive damper load is at furthest point from power supply.
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Originally posted by Shawn Hogan on the RailPro Users Yahoo! Group on Jul 28, 2015
Hello Tim,
so you couldn't get a stable reading on a rail section?! Nickle Silver rail?
Shawn
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Originally posted by Shawn Hogan on the RailPro Users Yahoo! Group on Jul 28, 2015
Thanks guys! Good information here; now I know why we had some intermittent current problems. :(
Gonna do the layout bus wiring this time. A friend of mine lives about 2 hours away and how you all are describing the wiring is exactly like he's doing it. I helped solder feeders for him one afternoon. I'm getting a much better picture for how and why.
Back to the Rail Pro power requirements: I'm building a layout in a 9' X 12' spare room. One PWR-56 should get me where I want to go, right? Do I understand correctly that the radio signals go through the air and the rails?
Shawn
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Originally posted by William Brillinger on the RailPro Users Yahoo! Group on Jul 28, 2015
The radio signals go only through the air.
The PWR-65 rebroadcasts (by air) what it gets, thereby increasing the coverage in the room.
- Bill
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Originally posted by Shawn Hogan on the RailPro Users Yahoo! Group on Jul 28, 2015
So the PWR-56 functions as a repeater for the HC-2?
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Originally posted by picturemaker22 on the RailPro Users Yahoo! Group on Jul 28, 2015
Shawn, my layout is 12x17 feet with 200 feet of hadlaid track and turnouts, All pieces of track are fed to a 14ga bus with 16ga feeders (that's what I had on hand so I used them, smaller 18 or 22ga wire would have been OK too). My PR-56 is placed approximately centre of the layout and works very well. Track voltage is uniform throughout. I use code 70 and code 83 rail with rail joiners, I do not rely on the rail joiners for electrical continuity, only for track alignment.
mel
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Originally posted by William Brillinger on the RailPro Users Yahoo! Group on Jul 28, 2015
Yes it is a repeater for all the RailPro controllers, modules, & components.
You can read the PWR-56 manual here:
http://ringengineering.com/RailPro/Documents/PWR-56UsersManual.pdf
- Bill
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Originally posted by kpack05 on the RailPro Users Yahoo! Group on Jul 28, 2015
Similar to others, I have been taught to solder a feeder to every rail. It may not be completely necessary, but it basically eliminates any issues that may arise from soldered rail or rail joiners. When I was first learning how to lay track I was advised by Tony Sissons (originally from UK) that over there they solder TWO sets of feeders to every piece of track. One is hooked up to the bus, and the other set is left alone to be used for diagnosis of any future electrical problems and/or re-establishing an electrical connection without having to mess up scenery. Apparently he also lays all his track without rail joiners so each section of rail is completely isolated from the other.
For myself, I just have a single feeder on every piece of rail even though even that may be a bit of overkill. Redundancy brings reliability in this case I think.
-Kevin
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Originally posted by Shawn Hogan on the RailPro Users Yahoo! Group on Jul 28, 2015
Well, I guess it's settled then. I'll be soldering feeder wires to all my rails! I like the idea of continuity.
Thank you Bill for the link to the manual. I downloaded it today and started to plod my way thru! :) Call me lazy, but sometimes I like hearing someone tell me what I will read eventually. Kinda helps anchor it in the brain.
Shawn
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Originally posted by TS on the RailPro Users Yahoo! Group on Jul 29, 2015
Hi Shawn,
Yes it was a length of nickel silver rail.
The discussion on droppers just got me thinking about how we go about
electrical continuity and how the prototype goes about it so I wanted
to see just how resistive the rail was. The inability to get a stable
reading makes me think it was too small to measure.
Cheers,
Tim
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Originally posted by TS on the RailPro Users Yahoo! Group on Jul 30, 2015
Hello all,
I decided to do some experimenting. I hooked a LM-2S up to my benchtop
power supply and got the following figures at no load.
At 5 volts the LM-2S responded - barely. You couldn't run trains at this
voltage anyway, it was just out of interest.
At around 10.4 volts I got the track under-voltage warning.
At around 16.2 volts I got the track over-voltage warning (~1.8 volts
less than maximum).
It was ok on 17.2 volts. I didn't dare go to the stated maximum of
18 volts. If I had one that was only worth destroying I'd see what it
could go to before failing.
So any DC power supply that outputs within ~12 to 16 volts is *probably*
fine to use instead of a PWR-56. You run your own risk though. Given
that you get a power supply, repeater and short protection the cost of
the PWR-56 is probably comparable to a quality DC power supply anyway.
Cheers,
Tim
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Originally posted by Shawn Hogan on the RailPro Users Yahoo! Group on Jul 30, 2015
Thank you Tim! Interesting info. Sometimes I have to consider the "cheap" alternative before I'm convinced to by the "right" one.
I think the short protection is probably the most valuable reason to purchase the PWR-56.
Shawn
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Started with a DCC supply that came with an Atlas DCC starter system. Ignored the voltage warning on the HC-2 controller. Smoked a $75 LM-2S. Bought a PWR-75. Lesson learned. Sometimes it just doesn't make sense to save a few bucks. Your mileage may vary.