RailPro User Group

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Alan on July 25, 2017, 02:54:26 PM

Title: Sound Familiar?
Post by: Alan on July 25, 2017, 02:54:26 PM
I used to visit MRH regularly but now only occasionally with today being one of those occasions. Had a good chuckle with this:

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/30650 (http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/30650)

Quote
... A modern DCC system should in this day have a touch screen interface for programming and setting up the system. It would also help for things we do during an operating session such as setting up and breaking down a consist.  It should also have a simple on and off.  All of these would improve the interface to something reasonable for today.  I should not have to press three buttons while standing on one leg just to get the system to turn on. 

A modern system should have a default built in computer interface.

A modern system should come with LCC built in. 

A modern system should be wireless to the hand sets and these hand sets should never have to be plugged in.  These handsets should have an easy and obvious way to be turned on and off.  And they should show you what Decoder number they are running.  (I don't care how) as a person should be able to see what engine a handset is running not have to guess,  I have seen some set down a handset and pick up the wrong one way two often.  Hundreds or thousands of dollars of potential damage should not rest on "guessing" what engine is set to what handset.

A modern system should have the ability to put receivers for the wireless handsets at various locations as the room size/shape and interference can make one receiver not enough.

A modern System should have a reasonable ergonomic hand set available

A modern system does NOT need wired handsets. ...

Now, where have I seen that?
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: William Brillinger on July 25, 2017, 03:49:33 PM
wow, there's nothing like that that I've heard of.

Oh, wait there is!!!
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: nodcc4me on July 25, 2017, 06:04:33 PM
Must have been posted by one of our guys.  :D  Funny thing is...it's all true!  :)
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: KPack on July 25, 2017, 06:39:45 PM
Ha, that is awesome.  I'm amazed that people continue to stick with DCC.  I guess there's nothing like controlling a train with something akin to a 90's era Texas Instruments calculator! 

So is anyone going to respond to the thread with the obvious?

-Kevin
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: William Brillinger on July 25, 2017, 08:45:07 PM
Yes, Please do post! and give a plug for the group!

In fact, everybody should jump in  :)
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: darryl.trains on July 25, 2017, 09:37:54 PM
 Wow !   What an opportunity to make waves on that website. I hate to be the first one but then I have an asbestos suit that hasn't seen any action in a long time. I might take a chance after one of the fellers here, starts the fire or so to speak?

Stand up and testify..

The old fardt in Yuma.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: Alan on July 25, 2017, 09:40:56 PM
Someone should post this image as a reply. No words, just the image.  8)

HC-2.jpg
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: KPack on July 25, 2017, 11:00:40 PM
Done.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: darryl.trains on July 25, 2017, 11:41:54 PM
 Well, who or whom is next?

 Just have to see if there is any response on the other site? Who am I kidding?

 Just having phun and you?

  Darryl in Arid-Zone
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: William Brillinger on July 26, 2017, 07:03:02 AM
Well played Alan (and Kevin). Well played.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: Alan on July 26, 2017, 07:14:05 AM
Quote
I hate to be the first one but then I have an asbestos suit that hasn't seen any action in a long time.

Darryl, good thing you have that suit. The DCC crowd really dig their heels in when challenged. Drink plenty of water.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: TomO on July 26, 2017, 07:50:11 AM
I almost responded yesterday when I read the forum at MRH. Decided not to start a flame war so didn't. The responses you guys made were very well thought out comments and didn't destroy any other systems. Straight forward to what the strengths are for RailPro, I salute you. 

TomO
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: G8B4Life on July 26, 2017, 08:02:45 AM
I'm surprised the naysayers and bashers without anything else to say but "it's not for me" and "It's not DCC" haven't turned up in droves yet to our responses.

I'm really really surprised someone from the US mentioned the ESU ECoS system. From what I saw a couple of years ago it's quite impressive but boy if people think the cost of RailPro is high compared to DCC then they might not want to look and see what ECoS costs!

Interesting post though, contained some very good points. It shows the state of laurel resting instead of innovation on the part of North American DCC system manufacturers.

- Tim
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: William Brillinger on July 26, 2017, 09:33:05 AM
Quote
Darryl, good thing you have that suit.

Darryl, I may need to borrow that suit.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: G8B4Life on July 26, 2017, 10:44:48 AM
Darryl, I may need to borrow that suit.

Nice one pointing out the proprietary in DCC Bill. I seem to recall making a small rant about that being my #1 beef here not long ago and there you go, less than a week later someone pulls that myth out of the hat. Might point out that DCC decoders are propriety too, as long as it responds to the NMRA DCC signal and has at least the minimum quotient of NMRA CV's you can do whatever else you like with them which can be proprietary, which they have (transponding, RailCom, high CV's etc).

- Tim
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: William Brillinger on July 26, 2017, 11:24:25 AM
Yes Tim, it was your words that inspired me to write that. Thanks!
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: darryl.trains on July 26, 2017, 11:27:56 AM
 For me, electronics was the way to go in model railroading as like everyone else I had just plain DC control to start with and that was it for the time being. Then I ran across Keller Engineering for a start in Electronic engine control. Quite a feature for it's time but time was really short as along came DCC with NMRA standards. All well and good so I jumped into DCC and even tho it had interesting features, I didn't like the programing and trying to remember the CV's, well some of them, was not my bag. I was thankful that NMRA did make the standards and still do but now they are promoting LCC as DCC is overloaded or so to speak.

 My first change cost me dearly as I had pile of Keller Engineering products that I disposed long ago. The demand was there, due to the higher initial cost, for cheap used parts..  It was easy to find a new home even tho I took a direct hit..

So many moons went by and then I discovered RP.  And you must now know the rest of the story.

 RP will last me until the final train pulls out and hopeful not too soon, NOT too soon.

 I find this banter amusing but very useful as long as it doesn't get ugly and so far it has been nice. I guess the asbestos suit will hang in the closet until needed at some future discussion that might be getting rather warm?

 Y'all have phun ya hear?  The old fardt in Yuma

 
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: Joel B. on July 26, 2017, 11:37:33 AM
 Hi All
After reading the whole MRH post, it made me think for a moment. My take on it was that he really didn't want a solution. You guys did a very good job and were very polite, offering him just what he was asking for. Instead he came back with age old arguments. Well you tried and I doubt he will look in to RP although he might like it. Then again I doubt he would admit it.
 Enjoy your day
     Joel B.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: William Brillinger on July 26, 2017, 01:00:53 PM
Quote
My take on it was that he really didn't want a solution.

Well you tried and I doubt he will look in to RP although he might like it.

Your observation is likely correct, however the conversation has significant value to the RailPro community in that it has already been read by 400+ other individuals who may not feel the same way. Even if the OP isn't interested, odds are that others will be kicking the tires soon.

Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: Alan on July 26, 2017, 04:35:08 PM
Stuck on an insanely boring late day conference call today I read the recent comments on the MRH thread.

Bill, you may want to take a look at Jeff's price comparison comment as it is unfair to RP dealers such as you. Jeff's opinion, being a MRH staff member, may carry more influence than one from a common forum member. Jeff includes a module price in the RP calculations but not in any of the DCC calculations. Jeff is a DCC user so I understand why he would look through a "conversion to" lens and for existing DCC owners that is okay. However, his equipment list for DCC reads as if the person has no equipment i.e. for a person just starting out. I am puzzled how a person just starting out can run DCC trains with no decoder. As Jeff demonstrates, RP is the least expensive wireless system available. It would have an even bigger advantage if he didn't include a module.

In other news, Dave did no favors for ECoS by posting the video (or ESU themselves for making it). Have you watched it? It is still just as complicated as any other DCC but with a pretty face. $1400 for that??? Fuhgeddaboudit.

Jacob, very nice comment. Rotary phone to iPhone pretty much sums it up!
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: William Brillinger on July 26, 2017, 04:56:48 PM
Good point Alan, thanks for the heads up. I will talk to Jeff directly.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: William Brillinger on July 26, 2017, 07:33:19 PM
Not quite what I hoped to see, but Jeff has updated his part about RP.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: Alan on July 26, 2017, 08:36:31 PM
Why would you buy locos with DCC installed if you don't have a DCC layout? Never mind, it's a rhetorical question. At least it was nice of Jeff to edit the post.

I think there is a lot of suppressed jealousy within the DCC crowd. They can't bring themselves to admit RailPro is a superior solution. Understandable. It is human nature to defend your decisions even in the presence of evidence to the contrary. Can't blame them. When the next revolutionary product comes along we will be in the same situation with our large investments in RP. When that day comes I hope I am open minded enough to tell the new system users how jealous I am of them.  :)
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: PatP on July 26, 2017, 10:25:52 PM
I finally jumped into it, actually not here, but in the MRH thread, especially since my stuff got here today and I am officially now an RP user. Y'all realize this is almost a religious war, right? Both sides don't just know, they believe they are right. The DCC crowd is so sure that they've closed their minds to anything remotely close to an alternative. Sadly, this makes them about average, as people go. I always explained them to my employees as the "we all know anything new or different won't work" crowd. The RP group evidently took off the blinders. I had to do the research for myself, running into the same roadblocks you've already seen/heard.

The DCC communication is actually a radio, as best I can decipher, using rails/busses as antenna. A constant DC carrier with a 1mhz square wave signal piggybacked in it. I guess it works, for 1970 technology, but the radios back then had crystals too. This is the same reason those users have to continuously clean track, to keep the static down. Sadly, today's radios don't transmit or receive without an antenna either, which says it's faulty technology.

I did the cost math. RP was not the cheapest for my system, which is evidently fairly large (20'x30'), but it wasn't the most expensive either, keeping in mind I also bought extra remotes. I figured the prices with and without "decoders", which the DCC stuff is actually higher for the better ones. And, I only figured the higher end stuff for the DCC systems, at least the ones most people were claiming as "better".

Today, though, pulling the decoders out of two Athearn SD70Ms, plugging in LM-3Ss and being up and running was just amazing. I had ran those engines as straight DC and I swear they are quieter and smoother now. That kind of defies Alan's question but, I got them as DCC-no sound for the same price as DCC ready. Besides, these are special. "Spirit of Mulberry" and "Spirit of Tampa". Hey, this is phosphate country.

Something has to go wrong. It can't be this simple.

Enough of this. I've got to re-read Alan's thread about speakers. I've got trains to run.

PatP
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: KPack on July 26, 2017, 11:09:54 PM
Congrats Pat!  If you think it's good now, wait until you see what's coming.  Just sayin'.

-Kevin
Title: Kevin's let the cat out of the bag
Post by: G8B4Life on July 27, 2017, 12:04:36 AM
Ok, Kevin's let the cat out of the bag on the MRH forum. This feature isn't even announced by RE yet (though many probably guessed this feature was coming). I've known about it it since Bill had said he was "sworn to secrecy" by RE all that long time ago and I have seen the screens for setting this up in my research though the screens weren't reachable in the software.

So, now the info is out in the wild, who's going to start a thread to discuss it?

- Tim
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: KPack on July 27, 2017, 12:15:47 AM
What thread?   :o

Sorry, I guess I had forgotten that this feature was not officially announced yet.  I've known about it for forever and assumed that it had been released some time ago.  I mean it's been over a year since I first beta-tested it.  I didn't keep track of what had been released and what hadn't, and I haven't messed with this feature since I first tested it.  So, my bad.  I will keep my lips sealed.   :-X

Deleted my post over at MRH until this feature officially released.  I suggest that we continue to keep it quiet until Ring gives us the thumbs up to talk openly about it.

-Kevin
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: darryl.trains on July 27, 2017, 12:23:46 AM


 Ahhh you can tell us as we won't tell anyone else..

 "Ok, Kevin's let the cat out of the bag on the MRH forum. This feature isn't even announced by RE yet (though many probably guessed this feature was coming). I've known about it it since Bill had said he was "sworn to secrecy" by RE all that long time ago and I have seen the screens for setting this up in my research though the screens weren't reachable in the software."
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: G8B4Life on July 27, 2017, 03:12:59 AM
Ahhh you can tell us as we won't tell anyone else..

Sorry Darryl, even though I'm not sworn to secrecy like Bill and the beta testers (no one told me, I uncovered the secret separately) I have to be in agreement with Kevin on this one and not say what it is until it's released. It really can't be far away, heck a year of beta testing is more than enough time to get it working properly.

- Tim
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: William Brillinger on July 27, 2017, 06:44:33 AM
Heads up: I'm not posting this to be cruel, rather to give you all hope for the future!

The beta testers received a huge update yesterday. The list of changes is long and comprehensive. There is far more in here than the secrets of last year and if any of it works you'll all be amazed.

I hope to be able to test some of the new features out by the end of today.

As soon as we're allowed to talk about it, we will!!

If anyone else here is on the beta testers list and you want to compare notes, feel free to send me an email so we can do so privately.
It would be cool if we could connect the testers together offlist by email.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: TwinStar on July 27, 2017, 11:24:16 AM
Oh man, you guys suck!!! ;D ;D

I'm kidding. I can't wait to see what is coming out though. Hopefully it is soon.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: Morebassman on July 27, 2017, 11:39:46 AM
you guys are killing me!!! Can you at least say how long till we will know the new features? 1 month? 2... 6???????????
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: TwinStar on July 27, 2017, 11:52:51 AM
Jeff is spot on accurate with this:

I believe that Ring Engineering would do well, for themselves and the community, to put forth some sort of "continuity of business/prototcol" (sic) case to insure that if Ring Engineering goes away, a continued supply of RailPro compatible products will continue to be available. That could ease the tensions created by the single supplier argument.

Jeff Shultz
MRH Technical Assistant
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: nodcc4me on July 27, 2017, 11:57:10 AM
you guys are killing me!!! Can you at least say how long till we will know the new features? 1 month? 2... 6? ??? ??? ??? ?
It's killing me too right now. I am away from home and can't have a look until Monday.  :-\
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: KPack on July 27, 2017, 12:00:57 PM
you guys are killing me!!! Can you at least say how long till we will know the new features? 1 month? 2... 6???????????

No time estimate, but usually once things enter beta it isn't far from release.  Depends on how much work needs to be done to fix bugs, etc found in beta testing.

-Kevin
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: Alan on July 27, 2017, 12:21:22 PM
Quote
Jeff is spot on accurate with this:

I believe that Ring Engineering would do well, for themselves and the community, to put forth some sort of "continuity of business/prototcol" (sic) case to insure that if Ring Engineering goes away, a continued supply of RailPro compatible products will continue to be available. That could ease the tensions created by the single supplier argument.

Yes and No. A statement may pacify some people and that would be good. However, a statement is nothing more than a statement. It is not a money back guarantee. So, it is really only a feel good thing. But if it leads to more RP sales....

While it is prudent to evaluate pros and cons, I believe the single supplier issue is way overblown. Many, many things people buy are single supplier or proprietary yet they don't factor it into their buying decision and they don't lay awake at night worrying about it. Do you not buy a Maytag washing machine because you can't be sure Maytag will stay in business? (just an example to make a point, I know on the inside washing machines are fairly generic)

Let's say for a moment Ring did go away. What is the worst that can happen? You would have to buy a DCC Command System when you purchase your first DCC decoder. All along you can keep using your RP stuff and convert it to DCC at your leisure. Doesn't sound like a crisis to me.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: TwinStar on July 27, 2017, 12:32:11 PM
Alan,

You are correct but I can understand the sentiment. Maytag isn't going to go out of business with the death or retirement of its CEO or a board member. Ring may. As so many small businesses in this hobby close the doors with a death or retirement it is understandable to either look for longevity or to buy everything you might ever need while it's available. Details Associates parts come to mind.

Truthfully, many of the posters concerned about Ring going out of business will probably succumb to Father Time long before Ring shuts its doors. If it is a financial success I'd have to think another vendor would purchase the assets and continue the line. It'd be nice if Walthers would just buy every going out of business shop and continue the product lines. One can hope.

I think Tim and I are around the same age, 41, and I'm not at all concerned about outliving RailPro. If Ring does go out of business tomorrow then I call dibs on all of Bill's stock!
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: Alan on July 27, 2017, 04:56:46 PM
Yeah Jacob, you are right. A one-man operation does raise the risk level. I suppose it boils down to an individual's risk tolerance - stocks vs money markets. Unlike a financial crash, I don't see changing out a control system as a major life event. Some may.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: MustDecide on July 27, 2017, 11:24:40 PM
I visit this website/user group forum very often to see what is new and see what is happening in the RailPro world. But this recent talk of Ring Engineering and going out of business really bothers me just as I was about to place my order. Now I need to wait again.  Why did this subject seem to surface out of nowhere or is that part of the big surprise we are waiting to hear? I did not see the post on MRH.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: darryl.trains on July 27, 2017, 11:46:00 PM
 
Even "IF" RP went out of business and hopefully it doesn't,  mean the product will not be useable for a long time as it is presently. I remember having Keller Engineering products, 1992, still working long after he closed shop and then when I decided to sell my goodies, there were many folks willing to pay good money for hoard. I suggest having fun with RP and forget about what might happen much later down the track, pun intended !  Cheers, salute or your salutations... TOF in Arid-Zona
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: William Brillinger on July 28, 2017, 06:40:25 AM
Ring Engineering is not going anywhere anytime soon, and is in fact about to embark on a major market expansion to cement their place as a top tier option for controlling model railroads.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: PatP on July 28, 2017, 08:25:48 AM
I visit this website/user group forum very often to see what is new and see what is happening in the RailPro world. But this recent talk of Ring Engineering and going out of business really bothers me ......  Why did this subject seem to surface out of nowhere or is that part of the big surprise we are waiting to hear? I did not see the post on MRH.

I agree, since I just purchased a system. It sounds like one of the questions I should've asked was what is the MTF, mean time between failure, for RP? I seldom hear the DCC guys talk about equipment failures and some of the utube vids have devices running that aren't available now. If y'all, and now me, are looking at replacing short lived equipment then maybe we bought the wrong stuff to begin with.

So, if, heaven forbid, something happens to Ring, does everything just stop? I understand that he has been in business since 2002? That's fifteen years. Some here probably bought the first stuff he sold. Is it still running? What happens if, let's say Digitrax forks up enough money a buys him out? Everyone's got his price. Ring retires to some Caribbean island and lives in the lap of luxury the rest of his life. What happens then? You know, if frogs had wings...

In my mind, what I bought, is a fancy rheostat for a DC train transformer. It makes the engines go faster and slower, forward or backward. DCC is the same thing. It employs, in my opinion, a poor choice for signal transfer but, it does the same thing. I bet RP even transmits a square wave signal, so the only difference is how that signal makes the trip (well, except RP is a two-way communication). None of these can throw a switch (turnouts are the strip of asphalt where your driveway leaves the highway) without some other device actually moving the switch. Yes, they can turn on lights and blow horns but, I have mp3 players that are triggered by ir so a horn blows when a DC engine passes a certain point, every time, whether I remember or not. Neither of these will do that. Someone has to be standing there watching to press the button.

If Ring has decided to do some kind of dual function (that's easily doable, one of my guys did it with single loop controllers back about 1990), he may attract more of the DCC customer base. But, that doesn't mean I'm switching over. The wireless part is exactly why I bought RP.

It is a conspiracy and, they are out to get you. I learned 50 years ago to not worry about things I can't control.

PatP
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: William Brillinger on July 28, 2017, 08:51:01 AM
Quote
If y'all, and now me, are looking at replacing short lived equipment then maybe we bought the wrong stuff to begin with.

I'm confused. What short lived equipment?  There are some major software upgrades coming, but that's it.

Quote
But this recent talk of Ring Engineering and going out of business

Ring is not going out of business. The sky is not falling. Ring is growing, and as Ring Engineering grows, more staff will come onboard and the longevity of the company will be secured through that growth.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: Alan on July 28, 2017, 09:15:23 AM
Quote
Ring Engineering is not going anywhere anytime soon, and is in fact about to embark on a major market expansion to cement their place as a top tier option for controlling model railroads.

Stop it Bill. Just stop it. The suspense was already high enough and then you go and add this. You're killing us!

Quote
what is the MTF

I seriously doubt Ring has investigated. I doubt any model railroad affiliated company has tested. It is after all a cottage industry. If you crack open a HC or LM you will see they are built using off-the-shelf microprocessors and related semiconductor components. Given the extraordinarily robust performance history of semiconductors I can see no reason to worry about failure. I have had zero RP failures in 3 years of use.

Quote
I bet RP even transmits a square wave signal

DCC places a variable duty cycle AC square wave on the rails. The signal is centered on 10kHz but can be slightly lower or slightly higher at any given time depending on the combination of short pulses and long pulses in the data stream. DCC locomotives use the AC signal for both control and power (hence the 'booster' in DCC boosters). RP transmits data in a ISM band on a 2.4GHz carrier. Same as cordless telephones, garage door openers, wi-fi, and many other consumer devices. Quadrature amplitude modulation is used by all digital devices operating in this band. The only true square wave in a RP system (beyond the logic internals of an HC) is at the PWM output of a LM for the loco motor.

Quote
I learned 50 years ago to not worry about things I can't control.

Right on brother. Same here.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: William Brillinger on July 28, 2017, 09:19:23 AM
Quote
Stop it Bill. Just stop it.

Sorry.    :)
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: nodcc4me on July 28, 2017, 10:36:31 AM
Pat, although Ring Engineering started their business in 2002, they spent several years and probably a lot of money developing the products they would eventually be selling, followed by trips to China to set up the manufacturing process. The end result is a system that far exceeds anything else available today. Even now, I believe most of their time, and money goes toward R&D. There are some very cool things in the pipeline. They won't be going under anytime soon, barring some catastrophic event. In the unlikely event of that happening, we would continue using what we have, and would most likely be able to stock up on modules, if necessary, from suppliers. I have 30 RP equipped engines, and am not the least bit worried about it.


The HC controller is not just a fancy rheostat. It can do so much more, in an intuitive format that can not be compared to DCC. Nothing else comes close. As a beta tester, I am excited for the future of RailPro.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: William Brillinger on July 28, 2017, 11:06:23 AM
Quote
followed by trips to China to set up the manufacturing process.

Hold it. The entire RailPro line is manufactured in the USA by Ring Engineering. I expect the injection molding of the housings are outsourced but as I understood it, that doesn't happen in China either. Certainly the individual components are from various sources offshore, but the circuit boards and assemblies are all manufactured in Ring's shop on his own equipment.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: nodcc4me on July 28, 2017, 11:24:09 AM
That's true Bill, but I would think at least some if the outsourced parts are proprietary, or maybe not? I was also under the impression, from talking to Tim, that initially, everything was outsourced.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: PatP on July 28, 2017, 12:18:06 PM
Al

I appreciate the comments back however, I am not the one needing convinced. I retired last year from phosphate mining in Florida where I built, started, managed and operated facilities and equipment for 37 years. I designed and built railroads, roads, draglines, pumping systems, processing plants and, my favorite, flotation machines (I can make rocks float) and flotation chemicals. I understand that electronic equipment will run forever, provided we don't do anything mean to it. I had 20 and 30 year old electronics in industrial conditions that is still operating. I would not have spent a couple grand of my own money if I wasn't sure about RP.

Part of my point was to you, Bill, Alan, Tim, any of the other regulars on this UG, for the guy I responded to (MustDecide) and the guy Kevin responded to on MRH. They have concerns about the longevity of the system they're looking to buy, and I bet it's not an equipment life thing, it's a support thing, and to the average guy it's a lot of money. If they have trouble who do they call if Ring is gone? Y'all? If you want to have a conversation about the longevity of Ring do it somewhere else.

Tim had just posted a thread last week about the number of members on this site. Most of them are coming here looking for information or reassurance. If you want to build up the membership and participation of this group, if RP is not just a fancy rheostat, tell that story. If you're a beta tester then you should be the expert on this stuff. I, and I'm sure most others, took it out of the box, plugged it in and mashed the button (I did read the instructions cover to cover). I see the MU'd locos tug a little till they find their sweet spot so my assumption is they are communicating common load. No one else does that, I'll give you that one. The DCC guys can do lights and horns, and I can do that with a small circuit board and some components on DC. The touch screen, being able to put my own pictures on it, not being limited to 2 or 4 numbers as to what I call each one that's pretty neat. After that? Yeah the engines run quieter and smoother and they will run a creep speeds, but those guys will have to see that to realize it.

So, after all that it's still a rheostat, but then I've had 2 days with it, and I can't seem to find an expert to educate me.

PatP
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: William Brillinger on July 28, 2017, 12:38:16 PM
Pat,

I think your comments are spot on, and I am glad you shared them!
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: nodcc4me on July 28, 2017, 02:50:10 PM
Pat, My longevity comments were actually for Must Decide. Sorry for the confusion on my part.


I'm certainly no expert on the inner workings of the system. Some of that is a tightly guarded secret. Perhaps Alan and Tim have a better understanding of the electronics. You won't need an expert. Just use it for a while and you will learn enough to make it work just the way you want it to.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: TomO on July 28, 2017, 07:19:15 PM
Pat your message to Jeff was spot on. He did respond and says when he writes he doesn't represent MRH. My feeling on that is he should remove the MRH from his signature. When it's there I feel he speaks for the magazine. No need not to shy away, do what I'm doing about my misunderstood comments on the What's Neat article. Ignore them, even when Joe double talks. Seems different now that Cabosse does have a small ad.

Happy Railroading to all
TomO
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: Alan on July 28, 2017, 08:08:53 PM
Guys, please keep it civil on MRH. Let's rise above our emotions and focus on talking about the features and benefits of RP for that is the argument the detractors cannot win.

Single provider, sound library, and N scale are the only vulnerable weaknesses in RP. If challenged, you have no choice but to respectfully admit it. In every other aspect, and there are many, RP is clearly superior to DCC. Potential buyers want to know about features and benefits and will receive our message much clearer if we take the high road in all our communications.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: Alan on July 29, 2017, 08:40:36 AM
Sometimes it falls right into your lap....

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/30650?page=3 (http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/30650?page=3)

Quote
I keep hearing about this RailPro, and how, even with the whole "proprietary" bit, some folks will still choose it over DCC... so, I have to assume that it must be something cool to take that risk.
So, someone, tell me what RailPro is, and what are it's advantages over DCC?
What is it, exactly?

That's your cue.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: KPack on July 29, 2017, 10:53:05 AM
Responded, kept it simple and straightforward.  If he wants more info it very simple to look around for it.

-Kevin
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: G8B4Life on July 29, 2017, 10:59:12 AM
I had a reply typed out 14 hours ago, but called out. oh well.

Guys, please keep it civil on MRH. Let's rise above our emotions and focus on talking about the features and benefits of RP for that is the argument the detractors cannot win. ... and the rest of Alans post...

Good point Alan, I think we do a good a good job of this but we should always be mindful of it anyway. Some naysayers just have to have their say for some reason so we should try to avoid sinking to the same level when replying.

Pat,

I don't believe that beta testers should be subject matter experts in any sense (though it certainly can't hurt), their job is solely to provide feedback back to the developer on any anomalies (bugs) that are against the expected way something is supposed to work so the developer can fix it . A bonus to us is that beta testers have the exposure to any new features and can provide help to others sooner than everyone else but it's just a bonus, nothing else.

My post on the number of members here was just some simple stats I collected and should not be interpreted in any other way than what I got them for. What I was actually after in my stats was how long it had been since some of the zero posters had logged in, data I did not get as I wasn't prepared to spend the time. There will always be lurkers on forums, it's a part of forum life but I wanted to know, to the best I could get from the data available is have some people stopped visiting us.

- Tim