RP sounds and DCC issue

[ON28]

Board--

I've had LM3-S modules in an Intermountain F3 and Atlas GP7 for several years, with TCS KAs. I just updated to v2.30. Layout powered by NCE. Was running them in DCC mode when the horn and dynamics turned on by themselves. This happened running through some Atlas Custom Line switches with unpowered frogs, but this never happened with the previous version software. Both locos prior ran perfectly in RPO mode. I also cleaned the wheels for better contact. The HC shows voltage in both locos of about 12.3v. Thoughts? 

[G8B4Life]

Little bit hard to formulate a theory with such a small data set.  Did it happen just this once or multiple times? If it's just once I'd test some more and see if it happens again and in the same situation etc.

Other than that all I can think of is the LM's got confused when interpreting something in the DCC waveform. Strange none the less that it'd turn on two effects if that's the case.

If it happens again I'd send a message to Ring. We don't get told much anyway but there wasn't anything mentioned about changes to DCC functionality in the 2.30 "release notes".

Now, when you say you were running them in DCC mode, were you running them as individual loco's or somehow got them to run as a consist?

- Tim

[ON28]

Running separately.

[ON28]

Here's what I am not looking forward to: Being told a) the TCS keep alives aren't designed for the LM and b) finding out the latest LM software update is designed to only work with the new Ring keep-alives, exclusively.

[nodcc4me]

TCS Keep-Alives do work with the latest versions of LM's, including the LM-3S. I have a few installed. I don't think Ring would make them incompatible. That would really aggravate a lot of folks.

[G8B4Life]

a) Yes you might get told that but to that I'd say irrelevant, TCS KA's have worked for ages powering LM's without issue. A PB-1 might be safer but it's not the only option.

b) Very doubtful. If he did that it would just harm his business to no end, plus there is no data line between the two, just a positive and a negative lead. While it is possible to superimpose a signal on a powerline, in this application of constantly changing power flow I think that might be a bit too hard.

- Tim

[ON28]

Just ran my Intermountain F3 with LM-3 and TCS KA with clean wheels and clean track. Started out showing usual ample voltage, 12.3v, then started to draw progressively lower voltage, until it crapped out completely on hard-wired track nearest the booster. My circuit breakers showed no shorts. Remember, this is after I had issues with my workhorse Atlas GP7, and looks all too coicidental after updating LM software to 2.30. 

[G8B4Life]

I don't disagree that it all seems very coincidental but I think if Ring had somehow made a change that prevented a non RE power backup from functioning we'd have heard from others as well; there's several here who also run TCS KA's with LM-3S's on the 2.30 firmware. The differentiator  I think is that you have been running in DCC whereas others probably haven't. I'd start by seeing if you get the same behavior on pure DC.

- Tim

[ON28]

I don't disagree that it all seems very coincidental but I think if Ring had somehow made a change that prevented a non RE power backup from functioning we'd have heard from others as well; there's several here who also run TCS KA's with LM-3S's on the 2.30 firmware. The differentiator  I think is that you have been running in DCC whereas others probably haven't. I'd start by seeing if you get the same behavior on pure DC.

- Tim

My last test was in RP mode powered by NCE. I will test in DC but that shouldn't make a difference, as Ring promotes RP functionality as a de facto DCC system.

[Tom]

I am starting to wonder about the PBM.  I have a situation where a loco runs fine with PBM (the only PBM I have) for a while and then starts stopping at one place every time. No other locos, some with KAs and some without, seem to pick this particular place to stop.  It is as if the PBM will not stay charged up – according to Ring it is supposed to be on power 3 minutes before moving the loco.

[KPack]

2.30 is not the issue.  I have several locomotives with LM-3S and various TCS keep alive's.  They are all at 2.30 and there are no issues whatsoever.  I also have several locomotives with 2.30 LM-3S and PBM modules, and no issues there either. 

If the PBM is giving you a consistent time before cutoff every time you try and move the locomotive then it seems likely that there is some sort of an issue.  Could be anything from a really bad connection from the track to the PBM (some manufacturers use wire that easily breaks internally), incorrect wiring on the PBM, maybe an uninsulated PBM, to a faulty PBM. 

And I also would ignore the "power the PBM for 3 minutes before moving".  It works almost immediately.  Capacitors do take some time to reach full charge, but I have never had an issue with turning on the power and immediately starting sound and movement.

-Kevin