Consisting two lead engines with two pusher engines?

[Homeless by Choice]

I want to climb in the shortest distance possible using a very steep grade.   (Lets forget about traction, etc)  I will approach the grade using a two engine consist, stop, bring up two more engines from behind as pushers.  Now
•   How do you consist the first and second set of engines?
•   Will the consist work so that the center string of cars won’t be pushed off the track (derailed)?
•   How do you “Unlink” the two pusher engines at the top of the grade so they can go back to the bottom of the grade and the train can continue?

Here is what I would like to do:
1.   Link engines 1 and 2 and call them “Pullers”
2.   Link engines 3 and 4 and call them “Pushers”
3.   Stop Train, couple the “Pushers” to train
4.   Link Pushers and Pullers without unlinking the consists “Pullers” and “Pushers” and call them “Climbers”
5.   At the top of the grade, unlink “Climbers”
6.   Return “Pushers” to the bottom of the grade for their next order
7.   Continue the train using the “Pullers”

Is this possible?  The answer will help me design my layout.  I don't have a layout or the RailPro system yet to do my own testing.

Merry Christmas,
LeRoy

[G8B4Life]

The way you want to do this is not yet possible that I know of.  It might be with a software upgrade. Has anyone discussed this scenario with with Tim Ring?

Basically you'll either have to link the pullers and pushers as a single MU (think DPU), control them as independent MU's with very fast finger work from the one controller or use two controllers. I think the last choice is what most in the hobby that use some form of digital control do for pushers; even DCC can't control two separate MU's as one.

As for using pullers and pushers, or DPU, it works quite well with RailPro. There are a few video's around showing it.

- Tim

[nodcc4me]

If you link the pullers and separately link the pushers, the pullers will not communicate with the pushers and vice versa. This could possibly cause the pushers to derail cars up the line. If you use two controllers, this could still happen. Since the MU linking and unlinking process can be done very quickly with this system, you may be better off unlinking the pullers, then attach the linked pushers, unlink them, then link all four together. At the hilltop unlink them all, uncouple the pushers, then link the pullers and pushers separately to move them off. It sounds complicated, but in practice, this can be done very quickly and the chance of derailing cars is minimized.

[William Brillinger]

Linking and unlinking consists is so easy, there is no reason to worry about breaking up existing consists.

• Pull the pushers up to the train
• unlink the pusher set
• unlink the puller set
• form a new link with all 4 locos
• move the train
• unlink the units
• relink the 2 consists
• done.

[Dean]

I have done this. Not adding pushers, but having pushers in the middle of a string of cars.
Try this. Build a consist with the lead engines, not the pushers. Run the consist and cars to the grade. Add the pushers to the end of the train, individually. Then delete the consist and build a new consist using the original consist engines and the pushers. Make sure the 'lead' engine is at the front of the train. Now run your train.
When done, delete the consist and build a new consist using the lead engines.
This description is harder than actually doing the consisting.
My consist with pushers goes up a 2.6% grade and around a 360 degree curve. ( think one loop helix ) The way RailPro does consisting I have never had a problem with the cars between the engines. It's great.
Unfortunately I haven't found a way to consist two different consist. Yet   

[Alan]

Bill and Dean nailed it. After you have done it a few times it becomes quick and effortless. I don't have grades that justify pushers or distributed power but I sometimes do it anyway just because it is so dang cool. 

[KPack]

I will echo what Bill and Dean said.  I have run multiple units up front with DPU's on the rear and I do it as they outlined.  Breaking and setting up MU's takes literally seconds and is extremely easy.  Make the head-end units and the DPUs all part of the same consist. 

I have not had a problem with any cars getting pushed off.  Of course you will want to be present and watching the train carefully because if a car does derail for whatever reason, the DPU will push from the back and worsen the derailment.  That's just what a DPU does.  Railpro distributes the power so that the DPU isn't causing a derailment, but cars can easily derail from faulty trackwork, wheel/truck problems, etc.

-Kevin

[KPack]

Here's really bad video I shot with my phone of my train running on my friend's awesome Keddie Wye layout.  I didn't shoot the whole train as I was controlling with one hand and shooting with my phone in the other.  But you get the idea.  DPU power works very well with Railpro.  And it took about 5 seconds to set this consist up.

-Kevin

[Homeless by Choice]

I fully understand.  I thought that the unconsist pullers and pushers, consist all four, move up the grade, unconsist the four, reconsist the pullers and the pushers was the only method that would work.  I just wanted to review this procedure in case there was a better way.

I am glad that pushers do work and thanks for the video.

Thanks everyone,
LeRoy

[KPack]

To beat a dead horse, here is a slightly better video showing DPU operation with Railpro.  Decent length train, switches, grades, etc.  I had a couple of minor derailments, but not from the DPU....trackwork and rolling stock issues.  The DPU was very far from the head end, yet never pushed too hard nor was dragging. 

-Kevin