Author Topic: How-come dept  (Read 12332 times)

Dean

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How-come dept
« on: June 12, 2017, 03:27:27 PM »
90% of my locomotive fleet are Stewart/Kato F units. All the RailPro engines are these F units. I run the DCC engines without any problems. When I run the RailPro engines, at least a couple times the engines stall or stutter. What is irritating is the front trucks might hit a bad spot on the track ( usually switch points ) but the rear trucks are still on good track.
This only happens entering the throat of the switch. The engine should move through the switch without problems. A lot of my turnouts are code 100 Shinohara with powered frogs. Recently I installed some Peco Electrofrog switches. There is no logical reason why the RailPro engines have problems.
What am I missing?
Dean

Alan

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Re: How-come dept
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2017, 05:27:14 PM »
Do the RP units ever stall or stutter on straight track? Or does the problem occur only in switches?

If only in switches then I am inclined to think wipers may be at fault.

Is it practical to swap the electronics between a RP unit and a DCC unit to see if the problem follows the electronics? It would be quite a coincidence but it is possible the wipers on the RP units are not picking up from all wheels whereas all the DCC units have good wipers. Swapping electronics would tell you if this is the case or not.
Alan

LK&O Railroad website

When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro

Dean

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Re: How-come dept
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2017, 09:58:02 PM »
Thanks for the suggestions.
The RailPro engines only give me problems in the switches.
The decoders are soldered into the Stewarts. I'll have see if I have a 9 pin plug-in decoder.
Could a small electric spark from the wheels or points disrupt the RailPro decoder?
Dean

Alan

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Re: How-come dept
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2017, 07:33:58 AM »
Quote
Could a small electric spark from the wheels or points disrupt the RailPro decoder?

Yes. Would be the same with DCC too. A spark would be an indication of either a momentary short circuit -or- temporary loss of wheel to rail contact. My bet is momentary short circuit since loss of wheel contact is unlikely with other wheels picking up power and would make such a small spark it would be hard to see unless the room is dark. A momentary short circuit deprives the loco of power so would explain the stutter.

Your switches are DCC friendly correct? Check the gauge of your wheels. Make sure no wheel flanges are accidentally making contact on the backside with rail of opposite polarity.
Alan

LK&O Railroad website

When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro

Dean

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Re: How-come dept
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2017, 04:59:20 PM »
I haven't abandoned the trouble shooting. Just can't seem to find the time.
Dean

Dean

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Re: How-come dept
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2017, 10:01:44 AM »
I have just got back to working on this problem.
The switch points are not making good contact with the rails. I believe the wheels running across the points move the points enough to cause a momentary loss of power or arcing. This was even happening with my Peco switches that are spring loaded. I proved this theory by spiking the points hard against the rails. Didn't have any problems. Since then I have been working on the switches to get the points to make solid contact with the rails.  [ on all my switches, the frog is powered by the points. ]
I also found that the Stewart F units are just the right size to be on the points and the frog at the same time. If the wheelbase was just a little longer, there probably wouldn't be a problem.
I guess installing 'stay alive' circuits would fix the problem too. $$$$
It's odd that the DCC decoders didn't have any problems. Or maybe they recovered faster.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 10:06:05 AM by Dean »
Dean

Alan

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Re: How-come dept
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2017, 10:58:53 AM »
Glad to hear you found the problem.

Relying on point rail contact with stock rail as a conductor is fraught with risk for a mechanical reason beyond sufficient closing pressure. Electrical contactors (switches, relays, brushes, etc.) are all designed so as to incorporate a wiping motion as they close and open. The contacts don't simply come together. They ever so slightly slide across each other upon contact. The wiping action abrades away the microscopic layer of oxidation that forms on metal contacts. All common metals oxidize. The oxide layer is less conductive (higher resistance) than the base metal. If the oxidation layer is not continually removed eventually the contactor will fail to conduct when closed. A great example of this is found in audio equipment controls such as a volume knob. If you leave the knob in one position for a long time the control becomes scratchy when you do move it. Rotating the knob back and forth several times removes the scratchiness. By repeatedly rotating the knob you are wiping one contactor across the other which is abrading away the oxidation. DeOx sprays do the same oxidation removal except chemically instead of abrasion.

Point rails do not slide across stock rails when they close. They simply come together. With no wiping action you are bound to eventually get an oxidation layer that even applying more closing pressure won't cure. The moral of the story... regular cleaning maintenance will be needed on the rail contacting faces to keep your arrangement working reliably.
Alan

LK&O Railroad website

When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro