Author Topic: LM-3S-G  (Read 458 times)

ronp

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LM-3S-G
« on: August 23, 2020, 11:55:38 AM »
Good Morning,

Iím having a problem with my controller recognizing a LM-3S-G receiver installed in a USAT GP-9.  The receiver had previously been installed in an F7 but I didnít care for the sound file and engine match.  Otherwise it worked just fine.  So the receiver was removed.

Now with the receiver installed in a GP-9 it doesnít recognize or connect to the controller. It isnít seen under new products or pulled up with its old I.D.  It has power to the TRK connectors and power out of the common (wired to the board numbers), but no recognition of the controller.

Hopefully you may have a solution.

Ron






William Brillinger

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Re: LM-3S-G
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2020, 06:43:20 AM »
Is it possible that it was shorted during the install and died when it received power?

I would remove it from the locomotive, connect it directly to the power and test.

If you still can't see it then I would contact Ring Engineering for assessment and repair.
- Bill Brillinger, RPUG Admin

Modeling the BNML in HO Scale, owner of Precision Design Co., and RailPro Dealer.


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Re: LM-3S-G
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2020, 12:46:22 PM »
I second to take it out and hook the bare LM up directly to power and test again, just to remove all the variables.

How are you powering the LM and what's the power supply capability (volts and amps)? If these are less than what the LM-3S-G can handle then a short is less likely (but not nil) the fault candidate.

You mentioned that you had power from the common terminal to the number board lights (I presume these are lighting up?). How have you got that wired, ie where have you got the negative wired to? I do note that the wiring diagram in the LM-3S-G instructions has all the (function) lighting using one of the +5v terminals, not the common terminal. I don't know why that is but it's a variable that is different to what you have done as well.

My guess as to why you see power on the common terminal is it's straight off the internal bridge rectifier, which is working fine.

As a note, if you have the LM already in the controller then it won't ever show up as a new item, you'd have to delete it from the controller first.

- Tim

ronp

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Re: LM-3S-G
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2020, 04:02:56 PM »
Thank you both for the responses.  The power supply is battery--18.5V..6700mah.  I have several RailPro locos using this combo.  The GP-9 was a complete gut.  The motors, battery, are wired directly to the R/P thru their respective connections.  The board lites are LEDs illuminating normally that are wired with the black to the common and the red to the +5V.  I usually split the front and rear red wires between the two +5V connections.  I wire the board lites to the common so if the batt sw is on the lites are on.  With several battery powered locos it not too hard to walk away leaving one of the switches on.  The common works well in other locos and in fact worked with the first R/P receiver in this loco.  The rest of the lights are wired normally thru the button controlled wires at the opposite end of the receiver.

I've tried to delete the receiver thru the remove product remove path but I can't find the receiver.  It doesn't respond to the old I.D.

I have eight locos with R/P receivers.  With only the -9 powered I have tried all eight I.D.s.  Nothing connects.  I mentioned the common just to show that there is power to the receiver.  It seems the controller just doesn't see the receiver. 

All this said, I'm pretty much working at my limit.

I will remove receiver and test it thru another source.  I'll report the results.

Thanx again
Ron



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Re: LM-3S-G
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2020, 12:15:48 AM »
Another slim possibility is that there is a password that needs to be reset on the module.  Look up the procedure in the manual and follow it. 

I've seen it once before where a module somehow "acquired" a password, and then could not be found by the controller.  Just follow the reset procedure to rule that out as a possibility before contacting Ring.

-Kevin

KiloWhiskey

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Re: LM-3S-G
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2020, 01:16:16 PM »
That happened to me with a new install. Mispelled the password and it went invisible. There is a procedure to fix it in the instructions

Another Kevin
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ronp

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Re: LM-3S-G
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2020, 01:47:37 PM »
Good idea,

I was wondering about passwords.  I don't intentionally set passwords so I won't forget them.  But I may have clicked the wrong box when attempting to name the loco.  I guess I will have to use the reset procedure on all of the loaded loco I.D.s.

I checked the voltage at the 5V-common and it read 4.97 on my meter.  Seems close enough.  I also changed power supplies with still no recognition. 

My mistake of course was to not remove product when I pulled the receiver.  But it seems like there must be a way to recover from that error. 

I will certainly post a solution if I come across one
Thanx all for the help
Ron

KPack

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Re: LM-3S-G
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2020, 04:04:33 PM »
Ron - you don't need to remove the product when you pull a receiver or module.  It doesn't matter what locomotive the module is installed into.  The information regarding the module is stored in the memory of the controller, as well as the module, so if you move it from one locomotive to another (or just plug it into power) the module will remain as the same name it had previously.  The name you assigned to the module (or number) will only change if you change it. 

I've bounced modules between locomotives many times for testing purposes.  I never "remove product" for that.  I just rename the module when it's installed in the new locomotive.

Also, there should be no reason to do the password reset procedure on all the locomotives.  Just do it on the one module that is not getting recognized.

-Kevin

ronp

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Re: LM-3S-G
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2020, 05:42:00 PM »
Okay, thank you for that

I guess I expected the ID to come up on the controller when I installed the new module.  That didn't happen.  So I started searching the existing IDs thinking maybe something had been double named.  This module has a sound file on it that wasn't my favorite so it was relegated as a spare.   When previously installed it operated as advertised.  The wiring is disconnected except for the TRK connections.  It simply isn't showing on the controller.  I running out of tests.

Ron




KPack

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Re: LM-3S-G
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2020, 06:11:33 PM »
The controller shouldn't have lost the module ID or name, unless you removed the product.  Otherwise it would stay on the controller as a saved entity. 

If the product has been removed from the controller memory there are three possibilities for your not seeing the module now:

1.) Password problem.  Solve with password reset
2.) "Ghost" module problem.  I haven't seen this in a long time, but it's happened before.  A module gets somehow partially deleted....the space on the controller screen is still present for that locomotive, but there is no picture and no name, and it is unable to be selected.  It's there but it's not....therefore a ghost.  Solve by contacting Ring Engineering.
3.) Module failure.  Very rare, but it can happen.  There have been extremely few failures or shorts of modules in the years that Ring has been producing Railpro.  Solved by sending the module to Ring Engineering and they will repair/replace as necessary.

As a side note, why did you remove the module with the offending sound file, when you could have just installed a different sound file?  Don't forget that Railpro modules are completely update-able.  You can load any sound onto any module.  So if you don't like something, just delete that file and load the one you want.  If you're unsure of how to do that, let us know.  We can walk you through everything.

-Kevin

ronp

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Re: LM-3S-G
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2020, 07:10:11 PM »
Thank you for your time and detailed response,

1-  I just did the password procedure and it was indicated successful.  I then tried to link and got he error message..."error  cannot connect". I did this procedure with no other locos powered.

2- that has a hint of what is happening but I'm not sure

3-Maybe but no sparks, smoke or other signs of disaster. 

The problem with sound files has nothing to do w RailPro.  My satellite WiFi is so pour that downloads often fail before completion.  therefore I have no engine pic or sounds files other than those that come with the module.  I knew I had this spare module with the correct sound file and that it had been run for a short test period in another loco.  Hense the swap. 

Ron




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Re: LM-3S-G
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2020, 07:20:42 AM »
Just thinking about the ghost LM problem of old, if this is a case of the ghost LM problem there is an option in the HC to remove all products stored in the HC. Yes, you would have to re-detect everything again but it could possibly remove the ghost LM from the HC.

Determining if it is a ghost LM should be fairly easy; Products are displayed in the HC in the order that they were loaded (no sorting) so for example if you had say 4 LM's loaded in the HC and the second one ended up being a ghost then there would be a blank spot in the locomotive select screen where it should be. Of course if it was the last one loaded into the HC that went ghost mode you wouldn't be able to tell unless you loaded another LM which would then either (hopefully) overwrite the ghost or most likely add it to the product list which should then make the ghost LM spot obvious.

- Tim

ronp

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Re: LM-3S-G
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2020, 09:12:16 AM »
Tim,

I only have 8 R/P controlled locos so it really wouldn't take too much time to unload all and then relink each loco.  It would put to bed one more possibility.  I'm going to put this procedure off for a bit to see if any simpler ideas come up.  That said, it beats mailing the module back to R/P for a possible fix.  Good idea.  I'm glad I'm not further into the conversion process than I am.

Ron

ronp

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Re: LM-3S-G
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2020, 10:00:37 AM »
Tim,

Success

I just tried the removal idea.  I removed all 8 locos one at a time until none showed on the controller.  Then powered the troublesome receiver and tried to recognize a new product.  It came right aboard just as it should.  I removed all wiring except the two TRK connectors.   I'm taking a break before I rewire all of the functions.  I not sure what I ever did to cause this issue but the removal procedure fixed it.  I want to thank all who have helped thru this frustrating process.

Ron

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Re: LM-3S-G
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2020, 10:37:58 AM »
Awesome news.

You said you removed the locomotives one by one but just for me to be sure, out of interest, did you use the "Remove All Products" function or did you remove each locomotive one by one by selecting the Locomotive category? If you did one by one and removed 8 locomotives by selecting the Locomotive category without using the Remove All Products function then it wouldn't have been a ghost, but possibly some other data corruption in the locomotive list; though that would also be rare too.

- Tim