Author Topic: Can the A-R1 reverse module work with any 12V DC transformer?  (Read 126 times)

tupsters

  • Fireman
  • **
  • Posts: 7
Can the A-R1 reverse module work with any 12V DC transformer?
« on: February 05, 2021, 08:45:19 AM »
Hello,

Can the A-R1 reverse module work with any 12V DC transformer? or it only works with a Rail Pro transformer (PWR-56) ?

I'm using a Tech II Loco Motion 2500 brand,

It has two choices:

Variable DC output of 20VDC, 18VAC

or fixed  DC output of 20.5VDC, 16VAC

would this transformer work?  and can I use either choices (variable or fixed)?

thanks again,

John

G8B4Life

  • Signalman (Global Mod)
  • Conductor
  • *****
  • Posts: 879
  • I'll think of a catchy tag line one day
Re: Can the A-R1 reverse module work with any 12V DC transformer?
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2021, 09:17:20 AM »
Yes and no.

Yes, the AR-1 can use a non Ring Engineering DC power supply. No, please don't use your Tech II Loco Motion 2500 to power an AR-1, or any RailPro item.

The AR-1 has a maximum input voltage of 16v DC (AC will probably kill it, the AR-1 is polarity sensitive). Your Tech II puts out way to much juice on the fixed output. Using a variable supply is just setting yourself up for trouble really. While Tech II stuff is supposed to be good quality you really need voltage regulation to give a steady voltage and I do have doubts that the Tech II does that on the variable output.

How were you going to power the rest of the layout? You should really power the AR-1 from the supply that's powering the layout, or from it's own supply that is the same type.

- Tim

Joel W

  • Fireman
  • **
  • Posts: 10
Re: Can the A-R1 reverse module work with any 12V DC transformer?
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2021, 09:27:03 AM »
From the AR-1 manual - you need to supply it with DC at a maximum voltage of 16v (or less), and it is polarity sensitive (don't connect the + to the - terminal etc.)  I would not use your Tech throttle to supply it.  Although you could set the Tech to provide less than 16V using the track output, if you reverse the Tech direction or turn the throttle up your AR-1 will probably die.
JoelW
Rushbury Valley Railroad
Burlington, Ontario

tupsters

  • Fireman
  • **
  • Posts: 7
Re: Can the A-R1 reverse module work with any 12V DC transformer?
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2021, 05:42:28 PM »
HI, thank you for your answers.  Does the A-R1 have a breaker on it and will flip if a higher votage is used?  I used my Tech II Loco Motion 2500 for a few seconds and the red light came on on the Tech II.  I turned it off.  I did not try it again.  That's why I wrote this message.  Now I have bought a RailPro PWR 56 and waiting for it to come.  Do you think that the A-R1 will recover (if it has a breaker)? - Thanks - John

G8B4Life

  • Signalman (Global Mod)
  • Conductor
  • *****
  • Posts: 879
  • I'll think of a catchy tag line one day
Re: Can the A-R1 reverse module work with any 12V DC transformer?
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2021, 08:47:16 PM »
The AR-1 has short protection on the output (track) side. There is no mention of any protection on the input side so it's highly unlikely, hence the warning the input side of the AR-1 is polarity sensitive and a maximum voltage of 16v.

What terminals of the Tech II did you hook the AR-1 up to? If the overload/short light on the Tech II came on you might get lucky and it's saved the AR-1 from damage but I'm almost certain that you've killed the AR-1. All you can do is wait for your PWR-56 to arrive and hook it up and see if the AR-1 still works.

As I asked before, what are you powering the rest of the layout with? Logic suggests that if you were trying to power the AR-1 with a non RailPro power supply then you are powering the rest of the layout with a non RailPro power supply.

- Tim
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 08:54:38 PM by G8B4Life »

tupsters

  • Fireman
  • **
  • Posts: 7
Re: Can the A-R1 reverse module work with any 12V DC transformer?
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2021, 12:04:58 PM »
Hi, yep, I will wait for the PWR-56 to arrive and test the AR-1 again. 

Well, I purchased the PWR -56 and the HC-2, so I'll be moving into this RailPro system a little quicker than I expected to.  I just purchased a LM-3 and a LM-3S.  So I will be purchasing one DCC ready loco and use the LM-3S in that.  Most of my HO is FLEISCHMANN and other Euro type brands.  I need to keep with the Euro theme so I'm looking at buying a HO Scale Roco 63900 OBB Austrian Federal 2043 019-5 Diesel Locomotive DCC Ready on line.   I am hoping that it will be fairly simple to add the LM-3S into that.  I am also looking to covert one DC type Euro engine (because I have so many) over to RailPro by adding (hand wiring) the LM-3 into that.  Do you have any suggestions about what I'm doing?  I am hoping this won't be too far over my head to do.  Thanks again - John

G8B4Life

  • Signalman (Global Mod)
  • Conductor
  • *****
  • Posts: 879
  • I'll think of a catchy tag line one day
Re: Can the A-R1 reverse module work with any 12V DC transformer?
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2021, 04:40:04 AM »
No problems. I was asking what you were powering the layout with as I was becoming concerned that you were wanting to use the AR-1 on a conventional DC layout where you use a conventional throttle like the Tech II to control the trains. That would not have worked for you.

For your locomotive installations, hardwiring just takes patience, a cool mind and good tools. Personally I dislike it though I'm forced to do it, though that may be because of how badly models are generally designed these days, well models made for my market anyway.

For the Roco DCC ready loco, this might be an issue that could be difficult to overcome without hardwiring that one too. RailPro comes with a 9 pin JST header (and 6 pin header as well) on it. From what I was able to gather the Roco model comes with a PLuX22 interface. There are no JST to PLuX22 adapter harnesses available that I know of, even a search of ESU's website (the largest producer of PLuX22 stuff) doesn't have any listed. This is not to say they don't exist but finding them might be hard.

- Tim

faithie999

  • Engineer
  • ***
  • Posts: 96
Re: Can the A-R1 reverse module work with any 12V DC transformer?
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2021, 06:14:24 AM »
and often, in my experience, you need to remove the circuit board in a DCC-ready model to have enough room for the LM.  so removing the board then requires hard-wiring, anyway.

tupsters

  • Fireman
  • **
  • Posts: 7
Re: Can the A-R1 reverse module work with any 12V DC transformer?
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2021, 06:16:18 AM »
HI, I saw a youtube video of a RailPro user installing a LM 3S into a loco.  His loco had a 21 pin connector (to RailPro 9 pin).  He used a cable converter from TCS.  I have been reviewing all the cable converters that they have and noticed that they carry several Euro cables.  I am hoping on of those will work with my DCC ready Roco 63900 OBB Austrian Federal 2043 019-5 Diesel.  If not, I have hard wire it in like I've done with DC locos to DCC.  I see that you ref a PluX22.  Does that mean its a 22 pin connector?  thanks - John

tupsters

  • Fireman
  • **
  • Posts: 7
Re: Can the A-R1 reverse module work with any 12V DC transformer?
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2021, 06:19:53 AM »
Hi, So if maybe I should hold off buying a DCC ready loco from Roco.  I can convert any of my old foreign locos over to RailPro correct?  thanks - John

G8B4Life

  • Signalman (Global Mod)
  • Conductor
  • *****
  • Posts: 879
  • I'll think of a catchy tag line one day
Re: Can the A-R1 reverse module work with any 12V DC transformer?
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2021, 07:23:27 AM »
Yes, PLuX22 is the 22 pin connector. Technically it is 21 pins like the 21MTC but the blanking pins are in different spots (and pin assignments are different) so they are not compatible.

TCS doesn't have any PLuX22 adapters. The only one I've found, if I'm correct in reading their material is this one: https://tams-online.de/epages/642f1858-c39b-4b7d-af86-f6a1feaca0e4.sf/de_DE/?ObjectID=53342634.

The Roco specifications said the model had a PLuX22 interface. They could have put in the wrong info but I doubt it.

I can convert any of my old foreign locos over to RailPro correct?

Yes, you should be able to convert any of your old loco's to RailPro. If any of them are DCC ready then you might just need an adapter harness but if they are not DCC ready you will need to hardwire. If they are not DCC ready the biggest thing to look out for is if the motor is isolated from the chassis (ie, not using the chassis as a common between the pickups and the motor).

- Tim

tupsters

  • Fireman
  • **
  • Posts: 7
Re: Can the A-R1 reverse module work with any 12V DC transformer?
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2021, 08:14:38 AM »
HI, I am hoping that the wiring is the same as DC to DCC, correct? - thanks - John

G8B4Life

  • Signalman (Global Mod)
  • Conductor
  • *****
  • Posts: 879
  • I'll think of a catchy tag line one day
Re: Can the A-R1 reverse module work with any 12V DC transformer?
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2021, 08:27:55 AM »
Yes, it is the same, though the LM's have an extra JST plug to accommodate the extra outputs.

This wiring diagram for the LM-3 is here: http://ringengineering.com/RailPro/Documents/LM-3Instructions.pdf, it will show you what wires you need to hook up to what part in the loco. Note that the LM-3 does not come with the 6 pin harness included, you need to buy that separately. The LM-3S does come with the 6 pin harness included.

- Tim

tupsters

  • Fireman
  • **
  • Posts: 7
Re: Can the A-R1 reverse module work with any 12V DC transformer?
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2021, 09:15:59 AM »
wow!  thanks again for all your support!  - John