Author Topic: Improvements to the Hand Held Throttles  (Read 6952 times)

William Brillinger

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Re: Improvements to the Hand Held Throttles
« Reply #45 on: August 12, 2021, 11:01:50 AM »
Quote
so how do you tell which way is forwards and which way is backwards for the loco?

I don't use locomotive images at all (I just use the railway logo, CN BNSF etc for the image) and I have never even thought to care which way is forward or backwards based on the image. For diesels at least, there is a little F on the actual locomotive to denote the front in North America.
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Modeling the BNML in HO Scale, owner of Precision Design Co., and RailPro Dealer.


Cbrocco

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Re: Improvements to the Hand Held Throttles
« Reply #46 on: August 12, 2021, 11:27:46 AM »
I guess I'm missing something. The loco image is a functional button. It brings you to your locomotive list. Why do we want to remove this? Resize it maybe but this is the easiest way to  select your loco without going to the home screen.

I also like the image there.
 

William Brillinger

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Re: Improvements to the Hand Held Throttles
« Reply #47 on: August 12, 2021, 11:54:57 AM »
I guess I'm missing something. The loco image is a functional button. It brings you to your locomotive list. Why do we want to remove this? Resize it maybe but this is the easiest way to  select your loco without going to the home screen.

I also like the image there.

We don't want to completely remove it, we want the option to have the space reallocated for more functionality.

There is no reason that the loco name/number which would continue to be on the display could not become the loco list button.

Also if we get the running setup options, all moved off to another screen so they cannot accidentally be tapped, the loco list button would logically also move to the new running setup screen.

The big problem is when visiting operators who are not familiar with the HC interface accidentally tap these setup buttons, like the loco list or unlink buttons, they end up in places they have no idea how to get out of or how they got there, and potentially with their consist broken or worse yet as a runaway because they don't know how to navigate back quickly enough to avoid an accident.

We are proposing that there be a basic mode that is basically the way it is now but with a way to lockout accidental presses of setup options, and an advanced mode where we can have more functions on the screen. Most larger layout operators do not desire or need the loco image. They would prefer more function buttons in that space.
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Modeling the BNML in HO Scale, owner of Precision Design Co., and RailPro Dealer.


Cbrocco

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Re: Improvements to the Hand Held Throttles
« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2021, 12:12:31 PM »
I guess I'm missing something. The loco image is a functional button. It brings you to your locomotive list. Why do we want to remove this? Resize it maybe but this is the easiest way to  select your loco without going to the home screen.

I also like the image there.

We don't want to completely remove it, we want the option to have the space reallocated for more functionality.

There is no reason that the loco name/number which would continue to be on the display could not become the loco list button.

Also if we get the running setup options, all moved off to another screen so they cannot accidentally be tapped, the loco list button would logically also move to the new running setup screen.

The big problem is when visiting operators who are not familiar with the HC interface accidentally tap these setup buttons, like the loco list or unlink buttons, they end up in places they have no idea how to get out of or how they got there, and potentially with their consist broken or worse yet as a runaway because they don't know how to navigate back quickly enough to avoid an accident.

We are proposing that there be a basic mode that is basically the way it is now but with a way to lockout accidental presses of setup options, and an advanced mode where we can have more functions on the screen. Most larger layout operators do not desire or need the loco image. They would prefer more function buttons in that space.


Okay I get it now, I agree with this  :) Thanks for the clarification.

Michael Boyer

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Re: Improvements to the Hand Held Throttles
« Reply #49 on: August 12, 2021, 09:35:58 PM »
First off Thanks Lee for starting this Topic off .( 1 )  I do think that we need to have dedicated Engine screen so the new operators don't keep losing the page they are using to run from.  ( 2 ) Be able to shut off the warning messages.  I hope your all having a fantastic Day   

G8B4Life

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Re: Improvements to the Hand Held Throttles
« Reply #50 on: August 12, 2021, 10:45:52 PM »
For diesels at least, there is a little F on the actual locomotive to denote the front in North America.

No little F down here ;), and double enders both ends are technically forward and reverse depending on which cab your driving from, but we won't get into that!

I was thinking about this as I lay going to sleep last night and it got me wondering, the two prevalent issues are too much clutter and wanting an operations screen with more buttons on it, 4 rows having been suggested. To me that cancels each other out. I'm all for removing things that you shouldn't do while driving from being easily accessed from the control screen (like MU'ing for example) but, and this is just my opinion, having every function available on the one screen is probably counter productive.

That said, I suggest that we come up with mockups of what we want so we can all decide and give TR what we want.

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faithie999

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Re: Improvements to the Hand Held Throttles
« Reply #51 on: August 13, 2021, 06:19:07 AM »
I think mockups are far better than a verbal description.  Great idea!!

Ken

William Brillinger

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Re: Improvements to the Hand Held Throttles
« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2021, 07:45:37 AM »
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too much clutter and wanting an operations screen with more buttons on it, 4 rows having been suggested. To me that cancels each other out. I'm all for removing things that you shouldn't do while driving from being easily accessed from the control screen (like MU'ing for example) but, and this is just my opinion, having every function available on the one screen is probably counter productive.

As with the existing rows of customizable buttons, any position unused would be blank, so you can have it as cluttered or uncluttered as you want.

Some people have a lot of small sound effects that they want easy access to while operating.

For me (and someone like Kevin) these would be on the first page, anything that is configured once would be on the second page. Ie the prime mover start button is on the second page along with the step lights and main light on/off's. Horn, Bell, The Notch up, Notch down, Front Dim, Rear Dim, Ditch Dim, dynamic brake, a few coupler clunks, fans button sound, brake sound, flange squeal, etc would be on the first page.

IDEA:::  I Guess the setup buttons could be moved to only be on PAGE TWO, with a lock/unlock toggle button to enable them so there really is no possibility  of an accidental press and they would always be out of the way.
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Modeling the BNML in HO Scale, owner of Precision Design Co., and RailPro Dealer.


William Brillinger

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Re: Improvements to the Hand Held Throttles
« Reply #53 on: August 13, 2021, 08:58:10 AM »
What do you think about this layout?

It keeps the image, but adds a lot of flexibility and include the config button on only one of the 2 screens.

RailPro Config suggestions - 2021.JPG

With this setup, on a layout like Lee's I would put all the single use items on PAGE one, and all the regular operations buttons on page 2, so when you access the loco for the first time, you configure it on page one, lock the buttons, switch to page 2 and had it to the operator. Then the operator can switch between page one and two but not get lost.

Page 1 has the config so it makes sense to have it as the first screen you are presented with, and is also functional as the default "basic" control screen.

Page 2 is less cluttered so it makes sense to have this as the "main screen" when running for a more advanced setup.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2021, 09:45:01 AM by William Brillinger »
- Bill Brillinger, RPUG Admin

Modeling the BNML in HO Scale, owner of Precision Design Co., and RailPro Dealer.


G8B4Life

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Re: Improvements to the Hand Held Throttles
« Reply #54 on: August 13, 2021, 12:42:42 PM »
I gotta say, and it's no reflection on you Bill but that much blue and white is hurting my eyes :( Oh how I wish for my dark theme!

I'll have to make a proper reply after sleep (it's half past three in the morning) but one thing that is missing Bill is the fault indicator, that is probably a too important thing to leave out. Not sure about locking the exit button, I'll have to think about that one.

Also folks remember every new screen, function etc that we want takes up room on the HC. Probably not a major issue for the -2b but if we also want to carry these upgrades over to the older -2 (which we should) then it's something to keep in mind.

Bill, I may send you an email... later.

- Tim

Lee Nicholas

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Re: Improvements to the Hand Held Throttles
« Reply #55 on: August 13, 2021, 01:44:52 PM »
Bill
I would suggest adding two Fwd/Rev buttons and locate them at the bottom of each corner. It would then be easy to reach them with the thumb and would work for RH or LH users.
Better yet let the user define the placement to suit their needs.

I sent Tim an email yesterday he has responded and I will post his comments later.
Lee

William Brillinger

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Re: Improvements to the Hand Held Throttles
« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2021, 02:03:27 PM »
Lee, My proposed screen layout does indicate ALL buttons should be customizable including the direction button. We should be able to put any square button in any position we want.

Tim: Locking out the exit button is crucial to what Lee is experiencing - Visiting USERS leaving the control screen and not being able to get back on their own. The info button could be combined with the Fault indicator. There is also the red fault indicator in the uppermost line on the screen.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2021, 02:06:14 PM by William Brillinger »
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tupsters

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Re: Improvements to the Hand Held Throttles
« Reply #57 on: August 14, 2021, 04:06:38 AM »
Hi, for me, I would like to have the loco control button and the switch control buttons on the same screen.  I have to make 2-3 screen changes to switch my turnout and then go back to the loco control screen.  This take a lot of time away from watching what's going on.  Thanks - John

KB02

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Re: Improvements to the Hand Held Throttles
« Reply #58 on: August 14, 2021, 06:41:48 AM »
I am still a relatively new user (only 2+/- years of railpro use), and after reading through this entire thread, I'm make these observations:
- Please keep the picture - That's one of the features that drew me to Railpro.
- I had no idea, until reading this post, that picture was actually an active button on the loco screen! Cool!
- Editing the consist would be awesome.
- The dark screen mode would be fantastic.

I am not hugely into operations and don't belong to any club and the only DCC system I have used is the basic MRC controller. To say Railpro is an improvement is an understatement. To see these improvements, though, would be great.

Tom

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Re: Improvements to the Hand Held Throttles
« Reply #59 on: August 14, 2021, 10:26:26 AM »
I kind of like Lee’s final list, although not all of them are a pressing matter for me.  I noticed some complaints, maybe one complaint, about setting up consists. I thought that the ease of setting up a consist was supposed to be major advantage for RailPro compared to DCC!

I do wonder though how much resource Ring has to do all the software updating for HCs, LMs, and maybe PWRs and ARs too while making sure all updated and non-updated components all work with HC changes regardless of where they are in the updating process.  This string is only with regard to HCs, but there are lots of complaints about his server and download problems he also probably needs to address.

I have very little knowledge of DCC stuff, but would like to hear what someone who does has to say about suggestions for HC improvements, and others if critical, that will keep RailPro ahead of the competition, if indeed that is where RailPro now is.  I am aware that the DCC crowd may not think this is the case.