Author Topic: Speaker recommendation for Walthers Mainline SD70Ace?  (Read 49621 times)

hotrodf1

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Speaker recommendation for Walthers Mainline SD70Ace?
« on: September 11, 2023, 06:32:18 PM »
Hey all,

I finally have my first loco converted and running good, but the speaker that I got with my used LM3s is much too big to fit (and also lacking a baffle).  Looking for a recommendation for speaker to fit in the stock location - unless for some reason that's a bad idea?  It would be pointing down at the rails, and be passing through several 1/8" or so holes that are in the chassis.

One easy option would be the stock Walther speaker and enclosure (assuming I can call them and still get one).

This Streamlined backshop place has a ton of speakers too.  Are these cube speakers any good?  https://store.sbs4dcc.com/sugarcubespeakers.aspx

Or more of a normal speaker like this ESU 16 x 25?  https://store.sbs4dcc.com/ESU50330Speaker16x25mm4ohm1wattw/SoundChamber.aspx

Looking for "bass" response although I know in such a small place it will be limited.  Anyone have a favorite that's just really stellar?
Jeremy Moen
HO scale

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Re: Speaker recommendation for Walthers Mainline SD70Ace?
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2023, 04:47:47 AM »
Well, I've never used them (read too expensive after shipping and exchange rate) but Scale Sound Systems get a good rap and they even have a configuration for the Walthers Mainline SD70Ace: https://www.scalesoundsystems.com/product-page/walthers-mainline-sd70.

I know a member or two here have used SSS with good results. If you want real bass, then your pretty much on your own to hack away to fit the largest properly made speaker and baffle as possible. Some looking around on this forum will give you a few of KPacks installs that shows how he hit fit a large but really good bass driver into some models. It might give you some ideas, or a heart attack  ;).

There is also some discussion here on making your own baffles with sugar cube speakers (again, some good info from KPack).

- Tim

CPRail

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Re: Speaker recommendation for Walthers Mainline SD70Ace?
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2023, 07:47:02 AM »
I'm one of the users who uses Scale Sound Systems speakers exclusively. They make that much difference.

If J.T. has one already to go for the Walthers SD70Ace, then you are "In like Flynn". Even if his designed speaker won't fit with your install of RailPro (i.e. Bowser SD40-2 - the LM-3S goes where the speaker should), he can help with his UFIT line.

Also, if he has an option for two speakers (and you can make it work), I heartily recommend doing the dual speakers!
Ian Lisakowski
Modelling CP Rail & VIA in the early 80's

KPack

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Re: Speaker recommendation for Walthers Mainline SD70Ace?
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2023, 03:12:20 PM »
Jeremy - when it comes to speakers you really have two options: 1.) fit in the stock space, or 2.) modify the model to fit it somewhere else.

I've messed around with speakers quite a bit.  I used to make my own enclosures for sugar cubes, and would install 2 or 4 depending on space.  At first I thought that they sounded spectacular.  Then I experimented with Scale Sound Systems speakers.  I quickly learned that my homemade speakers were vastly inferior to the SSS speakers.  For ease of use and installation, the SSS speakers can't be beat.  However, I liked their older speakers much more than their new ones.  The old speakers could be ordered with two speakers installed in one enclosure, providing more and richer sound.  The new ones are a single speaker and they just aren't as good as the old.  Much better than most everything else, but I miss the old ones.

If you want bass, then really the only option is a speaker module from TB speakers.  They come as a module with a decent sized driver and a passive radiator.  These two combined produce low notes very well.  They don't get nearly as loud as other speakers, but they also don't sound like nails on a chalkboard.  Listening to most model railroad speakers is a form voluntary torture.  The TB speakers are the only ones that can actually reproduce low notes....and paired with Railpro's newer sounds they are quite excellent. 

The downside is the size.  The only way to fit them is with some serious surgery to the locomotive.  Large amount of the weight needs to be removed, and you need to be comfortable with soldering and running wires.  Is it worth it?  Yes.  I have a few models with the TB speakers and they hand's down the best sounding models that I have.  Not annoying to listen to.  They sound about as good as you can get in HO scale.  This video shows the installation in one of my models:

-Kevin

hotrodf1

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Re: Speaker recommendation for Walthers Mainline SD70Ace?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2023, 10:20:02 PM »
Thanks everyone for your ideas and thoughts.  Much appreciated!  I think I'll give the SSS stuff a shot to start with.  He had a video there that did a comparison between the stock Walthers speaker and the Rectify series that he has, and it sure sounded a lot better than the stocker (no surprise I suppose).

Kevin, your videos have been so helpful.  I know they take a ton of time.  Thanks for sharing your love of the hobby (and your skills!).

I have dabbled in building hifi speakers also, and I have a 15" sub with a horn loaded enclosure that is crazy good.  But that concept wouldn't work here as it would be too much space and not sure what would happen to the high freq sounds either.  Maybe a sort of transmission line unit would work.  Passive radiator also seems like a good concept too, as you said with the TB speakers.  Seems like there's opportunity here, but with the space that's there maybe it's just not feasible.

Could perhaps have some fun with a 3D printer.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2023, 10:23:27 PM by hotrodf1 »
Jeremy Moen
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Re: Speaker recommendation for Walthers Mainline SD70Ace?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2023, 11:32:46 PM »
Could perhaps have some fun with a 3D printer.

That's exactly how he makes SSS speakers.  3D CAD design, then print the enclosures.  I'm no audio expert and I have no CAD experience, so it's not something I can do.  But I would love someone to design something like a TB speaker module that can be fit into the hood of most modern HO locomotives.  A better driver and a passive radiator, versus a sugar cube speaker.

-Kevin

nyc steve

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Re: Speaker recommendation for Walthers Mainline SD70Ace?
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2023, 07:12:27 AM »
Jeremy, I too am in the SSS camp,  I have 2 Kato GP35s that I run MU. They had double sugar cube speakers installed. I replaced 1 with the SSS speaker and ran both of them. The sound difference was amazing.  I now use SSS speakers exclusively.  Just my 2 cents.
Steve

snowdog

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Re: Speaker recommendation for Walthers Mainline SD70Ace?
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2023, 11:24:44 AM »
I am a big fan of Scale Sound systems!

ON28

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Re: Speaker recommendation for Walthers Mainline SD70Ace?
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2023, 04:48:10 PM »
Just installed a Scale Sounds speaker and PBM upgrading this original Life-Like Proto BL2. I've used iPhone4 speakers until now and there is no comparison. Far better bass and rumble with the 567 ULT sound file. I used a dab of Goo contact cement to secure the custom-designed speaker. I also used copper beading tape to make a "trace" on the component tray for the common (blue wire) connections. Makes for a neater job.
bl2scalesounds20230915_235249.jpgbl2scalesounds20230915_235354b.jpg

KPack

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Re: Speaker recommendation for Walthers Mainline SD70Ace?
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2023, 05:16:53 PM »
Clean installation, well done.  I like the copper beading tape.  I've just used solid strips of brass from detail parts sprues, but the copper tape is more elegant.

ON28

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Re: Speaker recommendation for Walthers Mainline SD70Ace?
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2023, 05:26:29 PM »
High praise coming from you, KPack, thanks. Sharing your work helped inspire me to try RP!

CPRail

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Re: Speaker recommendation for Walthers Mainline SD70Ace?
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2023, 10:47:27 AM »
Really like the copper beading tape idea! Going to have to try that. Thanks!
Ian Lisakowski
Modelling CP Rail & VIA in the early 80's

ON28

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Re: Speaker recommendation for Walthers Mainline SD70Ace?
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2023, 10:05:46 PM »
Model RR supplier Cir-Kit Concepts also makes two-conductor copper tapewire, which is widely used for dollhouse wiring. It is sandwiched between layers of clear tape, so may be applied to metal. Thinking of using it for my upper deck wiring, to adhere to the bottom of my pink foam decking.

https://cir-kitconcepts.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18_50&products_id=236

Tom

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Re: Speaker recommendation for Walthers Mainline SD70Ace?
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2023, 04:02:52 PM »
I am also somewhat baffled by speakers.  I have two Walthers Proto PA-1 locomotives.  Can anyone tell me what speaker brand and model is likely to fit in them along with a LM-3S and a PBM-2?  There are so many shapes and sizes with or without baffling that it is hard to know what to buy.  Anything that will fit and produces a reasonable sound is fine with me.

KPack

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Re: Speaker recommendation for Walthers Mainline SD70Ace?
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2023, 04:13:29 PM »
Tom - the easiest thing to do is check with Scale Sound Systems (https://www.scalesoundsystems.com/rectify?page=19) and see if they have something that will work.  I don't see an entries for the Walthers PA-1, but they do have speakers for the E and F units, which may be close enough.  SSS speakers are drop-in, and all you need to do is solder two wires.  Can't get much easier than that.

-Kevin