Author Topic: New problem cropped up  (Read 8263 times)

G8B4Life

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Re: New problem cropped up
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2016, 08:09:49 AM »
I don't think anyone was aware of the 10 second power off delay. Another useful titbit that one. I believe the 12 loco limit will be "overall running at the same time", whether singularly or one consist of 12, or two consists of 6, or a consist of 6 and 6 singles. You get the idea.

That looks like a Mean Well SMPS in the pic Alan? Mean Well is a decent brand so bad RFI is a bit concerning as RailPro is supposed to be able to cope with interference to pass FCC certification. Knowing you have other SMPS powering the layout I guess those one's haven't created any issues? I might try the "directly in the way test" myself tomorrow as I have a Mean Well SMPS which I got to power my future layout.

Antoine,

As the loco's run fine singularly but have strange issues when MU'd this has become a bit more perplexing. Did you try raising the motor current manually or reseting the modules and see if it helped? With the updating the modules software problem you have, I can't remember but have you outlined the steps you took on here? We might be able to help walk you through it if we know what steps you took. The current LM-2S software version is 1.05 which you can check against the module info screen.

- Tim

Antoine L.

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Re: New problem cropped up
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2016, 08:20:20 AM »
I will try raising the motor current option manually, but is this something I must do until I get the best response or there is a setting you recommend?

Also, for the updates I will try again.

For fun, Here are those two Kato SD40. (painted this week-end)

« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 09:26:28 AM by Antoine L. »
Modeling a mix of CN / Wisconsin central on a 12x15 freelance area.

William Brillinger

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Re: New problem cropped up
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2016, 08:24:22 AM »
Great info here, thanks Joe, and Alan, and others!

BTW, as I recall there is a real world limit of 8 locos in an active consist. Other locos can be setup as inactive trailers, but a real control stand can only control 8 units. (I'll have to find the thread where I read this)
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Alan

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Re: New problem cropped up
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2016, 08:29:49 AM »
Quote
That looks like a Mean Well SMPS in the pic Alan?

It is.

All are mounted on my "power central" now. It is well above and behind the layout so there are no interference issues.

Alan

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When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro

G8B4Life

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Re: New problem cropped up
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2016, 08:57:20 AM »
I do like "Power Central" Alan, nice neat install.

Sorry Antoine, I can't give a recommended setting or anything on the level to try raising the current to, I've only done it once but as I only have a 3' test track I can't say if it worked for me or not so I was simply repeating what others have done before to try and get new loco's to play nice. Hopefully one of the others whose has done it can chime in and make a suggestion on a level to set it to, all I can say is you might try raising it to to the maximum.

- Tim

Antoine L.

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Re: New problem cropped up
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2016, 10:26:58 AM »
Yesterday I also notice a delay, maybe 1 or 2 seconds before reaction on the one of the constsed loco. Like one is answering fast, the other slow, maybe that's why the two aren't able to work well together. They run fin when speed is stable, but as soon as I touch the knob to adjust speed, one starts reacting faster and the other reacts later.

Any thoughts? maybe that's causing the problem.

Antoine

Modeling a mix of CN / Wisconsin central on a 12x15 freelance area.

Alan

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Re: New problem cropped up
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2016, 10:33:33 AM »
One may have greater driveline friction. They are China made toys after all.  ;D
Alan

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When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro

KPack

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Re: New problem cropped up
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2016, 06:46:22 PM »
Antoine - Are you pulling a train with these two locos or are they just running light?  If they are running light (two locos and no cars behind them) then oftentimes they will not run perfectly smooth.  If you are pulling a train, especially a heavy one, then the load sharing capability actually has something to share.  The locomotives will run much better pulling a load.  Without a load there isn't much for the MU/load-sharing function to go off of, and you can get that "bucking" you described.  It can be more prevalent around 18% power, then smooths off once you are in the 20's.  Why it occurs more at that point I'm unsure of.  I think at that point the load-sharing switches from a low-speed function to a high-speed fucntion and at 18% the transition can be a bit rough with certain locomotives. 

I have a couple locos that will buck at 18--20% when they are not pulling a train.  After that they are fine.  With a train behind them they run perfectly at all speeds. 

Regarding the updating of modules....check the module's software version by tapping the info button on the locomotive screen (the one that takes you to the real-time info page with track voltage, temp, etc).  At the bottom of the page it will tell you the software version currently installed on the module.  When you update the software on a module the screen will say "Programmer Started" and show an exit button at the bottom.  "Programmer Started" means the update was successful.  Exit the page and check the version on the module to confirm.  Updating the software version is usually very quick.

-Kevin

Josephbw

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Re: New problem cropped up
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2016, 06:55:03 PM »
Yesterday I also notice a delay, maybe 1 or 2 seconds before reaction on the one of the constsed loco. Like one is answering fast, the other slow, maybe that's why the two aren't able to work well together. They run fin when speed is stable, but as soon as I touch the knob to adjust speed, one starts reacting faster and the other reacts later.

Any thoughts? maybe that's causing the problem.

Antoine

Antoine, is there any chance that you changed the momentum in one engine and not the other? Just a thought I had while reading your post.

Joe

Antoine L.

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Re: New problem cropped up
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2016, 08:50:04 AM »
Kevin pinpoints something. It does the "bucking" with no cars to pull, but it sill does it a bit whith around 8 cars behind. You're right around 20% everything is gone.

I have wrote to Ring engineering about this maybe he has a solution. I hope it is not a defect LM-2S.

I haven't changed any momentum. All locos are still on "automatic max current setting". I don't even know how to change momentum.

Thanks for your help

Antoine
Modeling a mix of CN / Wisconsin central on a 12x15 freelance area.

William Brillinger

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Re: New problem cropped up
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2016, 09:17:49 PM »
Interesting, this video from 2014 mentions the bucking problem...

I had not seen this video before.

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Modeling the BNML in HO Scale, owner of Precision Design Co., and RailPro Dealer.


G8B4Life

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Re: New problem cropped up
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2016, 12:17:37 AM »
I had forgotten about that video, one of the first ones I saw when researching RailPro way back when Jacob was first posting about it on the Free-mo group.

The prototype does buck like in the video, especially when starting off. What will make the problem appear worse or better is the choice of couplers. Kadee's with there large amount of slack in the jaws, as used in the video, will make it look very bad. Like a few others here I use Sergents and even though I've seen the bucking it is not anywhere near as bad looking due to the very small amount of slack.

- Tim

KPack

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Re: New problem cropped up
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2016, 01:49:30 PM »
I use Sergents as well and I feel they make a difference as Tim said.  The very small amount of play in the Sergents allows the locomotives to feel a constant source of drag, whereas with Kadees there is so much slack/bunching back and forth that it can make the locos work hard to compensate for it. 

Regardless, running light will usually cause some bucking and that is normal.  It usually isn't bad until you reach ~18% power, where it becomes more noticeable, then goes away at higher power.  Run a train behind the locomotives and you will little to no bucking at all.

-Kevin

Antoine L.

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Re: New problem cropped up
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2016, 08:10:46 AM »
I solved my problem.

I set acceleration and deceleration to 8. Ring engineering support otld me values like 4 and 8 usually work best. Also, One of the loco had a loose wire messing with drive. Now they are both working like a charm.

:)

Me happy.

Antoine
Modeling a mix of CN / Wisconsin central on a 12x15 freelance area.

William Brillinger

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Re: New problem cropped up
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2016, 08:19:12 AM »
Excellent News Antoine!
- Bill Brillinger, RPUG Admin

Modeling the BNML in HO Scale, owner of Precision Design Co., and RailPro Dealer.