Author Topic: Proto 2000 BL2 install  (Read 2046 times)

ON28

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Proto 2000 BL2 install
« on: September 19, 2019, 04:07:53 PM »
When I plugged in a tested LM-3S to my working-on-DC DCC-ready Life-Like late release BL2, I could hear power to the motor but nothing moved. Couldn't do the auto current test, either. I had removed the factory light board and disconnected the factory light bulbs. Second try I disconnected the motor wire to the frame but I can see now that was a mistake as the motor is already isolated from the frame. Again, the loco worked fine on DC and the LM worked fine on another unit. Any ideas here are appreciated.

nodcc4me

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Re: Proto 2000 BL2 install
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2019, 02:59:41 PM »
Did you see anything unusual with the HCs voltage and current readings? I would remove the DCC socket and hardwire the module.
Al

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ON28

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Re: Proto 2000 BL2 install
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2019, 06:27:17 PM »
Couldn't run the current test so no data. However, I disassembled the loco to clean gears and will likely hardwire.

G8B4Life

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Re: Proto 2000 BL2 install
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2019, 08:05:29 AM »
I couldn't find a photo online of the BL2 circuit board however the symptoms you describe sound exactly like there is an RF suppression circuit built in to the BL2 circuit board. An RF suppression circuit has a inductor inline with the motor leads and a capacitor across the motor leads. These suppression circuits play havoc with LM's. We had a discussion on them here: https://rpug.pdc.ca/index.php/topic,295.0.html, and I posted a link to a Soundtraxx document on them here: https://rpug.pdc.ca/index.php/topic,846.msg6496.html#msg6496

Check the BL2 circuit board for RF suppression. The inductors will either look like big green resistors or a small coil of copper wire. The capacitor could be well, just about any small capacitor. If it's not RF suppression then we'll be back to square one but at least we can eliminate it.

- Tim

ON28

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Re: Proto 2000 BL2 install
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2019, 01:18:33 PM »
Here's the BL2 board. Looks like standard resistors to me. The 8-pin plug was located at right.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 01:20:04 PM by ON28 »

nodcc4me

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Re: Proto 2000 BL2 install
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2019, 02:34:26 PM »
They look more like capacitors. Resistors are color coded.
Al

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KPack

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Re: Proto 2000 BL2 install
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2019, 03:30:07 PM »
I routinely remove all factory electronics and hardwire the LM.  Yes it's a hassle to do sometimes, but in the end it avoids any problems with factory boards.  If all else fails on this locomotive, that's what I would do.

G8B4Life

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Re: Proto 2000 BL2 install
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2019, 05:46:40 PM »
They are actually diodes. This was a cheap way to drop the voltage to the lights from track voltage to bulb voltage and provide directional lighting on DC (each diode drops 1.5v). Don't see this method of dropping the voltage too much anymore.

The board as it is shouldn't affect the LM as the diodes would be hooked up to the white and yellow wires, not the orange and grey motor wires, unless there was a wiring error with the harness you used.

- Tim

Alan

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Re: Proto 2000 BL2 install
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2019, 06:18:59 PM »
They are actually diodes. This was a cheap way to drop the voltage to the lights from track voltage to bulb voltage and provide directional lighting on DC (each diode drops 1.5v). Don't see this method of dropping the voltage too much anymore.

The board as it is shouldn't affect the LM as the diodes would be hooked up to the white and yellow wires, not the orange and grey motor wires, unless there was a wiring error with the harness you used.

- Tim

Diodes for sure however each drops 0.7v, not 1.5v. You're thinking LED voltage drop.
Alan

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G8B4Life

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Re: Proto 2000 BL2 install
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2019, 07:14:50 AM »
Quote
Diodes for sure however each drops 0.7v, not 1.5v. You're thinking LED voltage drop.

'Doh, I did know that. What I was actually thinking while typing though was "I'd better hurry and finish this post as I was supposed to start work a minute ago"  ;)

- Tim

llxlocomotives

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Re: Proto 2000 BL2 install
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2019, 09:43:15 AM »
I agree with K-PACK, totally remove the electronic board.  The function it was designed for is not needed with the rail pro module.  It yields a voltage loss as well as the other unwanted control.  I find that this type board can severely impact the motor performance.  The
 Simplicity of DCC ready usually leads to problematic results when the digital module is put in place.  Best work with a clean circuit.
Larry
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ON28

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Re: Proto 2000 BL2 install
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2019, 04:07:28 PM »
Since I disassembled the loco to clean the gears, I'll hardwire. I will say that I installed RailPro in my DCC-ready Atlas Geep and it runs perfectly.

KPack

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Re: Proto 2000 BL2 install
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2019, 06:43:23 PM »
Since I disassembled the loco to clean the gears, I'll hardwire. I will say that I installed RailPro in my DCC-ready Atlas Geep and it runs perfectly.
I have one locomotive that I installed Railpro into a DCC-ready plug, just to see how it worked, and it works great (Athearn Genesis).  However, I can't stand how much space the factory board takes up.  I really like having room to breathe under the shell.  Removing the factory board and hardwiring allows me to have a cleaner install and far more flexibility on where things are placed.  No factory board means I can place speakers where I want them, keep wiring tight and tidy, and leave room for keep alive installation.

drisdon

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Re: Proto 2000 BL2 install
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2019, 11:23:54 AM »
I too do what Kpack recommends, primarily because that is what he advised when I started installing the modules, and removing the factory board defintely frees up space for the module, speaker, and keep alive and wiring isn't all that difficult.  Besides if you're going to change the lighting to LEDs anyways you might as well make it all correct. 

Dan Risdon

ON28

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Re: Proto 2000 BL2 install
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2019, 03:47:54 PM »
My install was straightforward. I disassembled the loco, cleaned all drive train parts after soaking in Dawn dish soap, filed any burrs from the gears, and replaced the cracked (and uncracked) axle gears with Athearn parts (which were a tight fit). I also cleaned the commutator with 91% IPA and a pencil eraser and cleaned out the slots on the commutator with a hobby knife. The brass worm gears were also cleaned with a hobby knife. The factory wheelsets were checked under magnification and thoroughly cleaned; you'd be surprised what dirt shows up under the Magni-Visor, including the truck pivot on the bolsters. The frame was also eyed for warping. I reassembled the loco, testing each truck for free rolling, then adding a few drops of plastic-compatible oil at the gear posts and light plastic-compatible grease to the gears themselves. I applied drops of Conducta-Lube wherever there is mechanical electrical contact, including on the truck bearings. I tested the motor out of the chassis, insulating the bottom contact from the chassis with masking tape. I removed the lightboard per the original Life-Like instructions, and plugged the LM into the factory 8-pin plug. It ran, but needed a few thrust washers around the rear worm to remove slop in the drive and quiet the gears. I also added masking tape where the shell touches the chassis, to further reduce noise. (There isn't any additional weight besides the chassis, so the shell acts like an echo chamber.) I ran it for a half-hour in both directions to seat the gears; it drew 630 mA on the current test compared to the 360 mA or so on my Atlas/Kato drives. No lights or sound at this time. I MUed it with an Atlas GP-7, but that's another story.