Author Topic: HC not seeing LM-3S  (Read 870 times)

CPRail

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HC not seeing LM-3S
« on: October 25, 2019, 10:57:10 AM »
Hi Group,

I'm trying to help a new user with an issue he's having. He's had a heck of a time getting set-up and wants to post to RPUG but he doesn't want his first post to be all negative.

He has a LM-3S that can't be found on his HC. I've tried to find it on my layout & HCs and it seems to not want to be found.

Any suggestions on how to find this LM? I had it plugged into a harness (8 pin) for my tests.
Ian Lisakowski
Modelling CP Rail & VIA in the early 80's
Rabid Winnipeg Jets Fan - Go Jets Go!!

KPack

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Re: HC not seeing LM-3S
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2019, 04:25:51 PM »
Is it a brand-new LM-3S?  If not, then it may have a password associated with it.  Regardless, I would recommend going through the "password reset" protocol as outlined in the HC manual to clear anything that may be on the module.

It is certainly possible that the module is dead on arrival.  That has happened a couple of times that I know of, though it is very rare.  Do you know if the module is receiving power and is actually "on"?

I'd be curious to see what his other issues are.  Railpro in my experience has been very easy to set up for most.  If his experience is otherwise we need to know about it.  Maybe we can recommend software changes to avoid the problems he is having in the future.

-Kevin

Alan

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Re: HC not seeing LM-3S
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2019, 09:14:23 AM »
Is it on?

Pop off the loco shell and set the loco on the track. Connect a multimeter or voltmeter to the blue wire on the 9 pin connector side and the yellow wire on the 6 pin connector side. Does the meter indicate track voltage?
Alan

LK&O Railroad website

When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro

CPRail

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Re: HC not seeing LM-3S
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2019, 04:35:35 PM »
Hi Guys,

I'll take a look and see if I can determine if it is 'on'. Here's a breakdown of the other issues he's been having:

  • His HC went back for warranty work. Apparently the screen would go black whenever you tried to do anything on it.
  • His other LM is in a Kato Sd40 and it has a mind of its own. It would go down the track a bit then jerk to a stop. Tried the module in another identical unit and same thing then an Athearn. No luck.Sometimes the ditch lights work and sometimes they don’t. Sometimes one ditch light alternates with the headlight for no reason. Sometime the speed just slows down when it feels like it. Then he tried both modules in some Proto units and blew the headlight bulbs.

I did advise him to download all the recent updates and proper lighting programs, but I'm not sure if he did that before he gave me his module to play with.

He's getting very disheartened, especially when he sees how easy my system is working.

Thoughts?
Ian Lisakowski
Modelling CP Rail & VIA in the early 80's
Rabid Winnipeg Jets Fan - Go Jets Go!!

Alan

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Re: HC not seeing LM-3S
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2019, 06:54:41 PM »
Wait until after Halloween passes when the spirits leave and everything will be fine again.

I can imagine the symptoms happening if there are loose or poorly soldered pins in the 9 pin connector on the LM itself.
Alan

LK&O Railroad website

When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro

KPack

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Re: HC not seeing LM-3S
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2019, 09:31:06 PM »
Another possibility is that the HC program was corrupted, and that possibly corrupted the LM programs. That is some truly bizarre behavior.  Never heard of anything like that before with railpro.

Once you get the HC back, test it with some modules you know work. But I'm a little worried about the status of the modules he has now. Something isn't right.  The fact that he has had so many issues with everything leads me to believe that it all started with one thing.  The HC is the center of railpro, and everything else revolves around it, so my guess is there.

Kevin

CPRail

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Re: HC not seeing LM-3S
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2019, 07:27:32 PM »
Here's the latest.

I tried the wonky LM in another install that I know works, in case my friend's supplied harness was wonky as well.  My HC did not see it at all, as per the first time using the supplied harness.

I then tried to determine if the LM was 'on'. I checked and I have 16 volts on the track, putting the multimeter to the blue & yellow wires/pins showed 15.55 volts, so, yup, it's 'on'.

I tried to clear the password, but it couldn't find the module, so it was unable to clear any pw.

I'm using my HC, not my friend's. To the best of my knowledge he already has his HC back.

What's the next steps for this wonky LM?
Ian Lisakowski
Modelling CP Rail & VIA in the early 80's
Rabid Winnipeg Jets Fan - Go Jets Go!!

crzytrnbuf

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Re: HC not seeing LM-3S
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2019, 09:14:30 PM »
 I like Alan's Suggestion wait till after Halloween all kidding aside Spirits do exist I lived in a house that had a Spirit I had my first layout in the Basement of a House we bought in 1976  one night I went down in the Basement to Run the Trains late at night  and I smelled the Sweet Smell of pipe Tobacco and  saw Smoke. One night after my first son was born he had his Hot wheels trike the one with the big wheel in front and the small wheels in the back. my son ran it around our basement  I always made sure he put it out of the way after he used it  one night I went Downstairs to work on the layout I open the Basement door,and Smack in the way is the Trike The next morning I yelled at my son for leaving his trike in front of the door he swore up and down he did not leave it there,now getting back to the smoke before we bought the house another young couple owned it.
They only lived there for 3 years,several years had passed and some one in the distant neighbor hood had lost their Dog and I found it and returned it to them not knowing this person from Adam asked where I lived and I told them, it was about a half mile from their house we got to talking and they said Oh the House that had the fire about 10 years ago,I had no Idea the previous owner had never told us,I don't believe they even knew, well to make a long story short  I had often wondered why the upstairs floor boards were cut out and covered over the holes were still there well it so happens that while talking to the Lost dog owner they told me The Old Guy that lived in the house after his wife had  died  lived all alone and smoked a pipe and had put it in his pocket of his jacket and forgot to make sure it was out and a fire started. they ran the fire hoses up through the floor from the basement to put out the fire! years later he died in the house. many other things over the years occurred in the house too many to mention here, we lived in that house for 27 years True Story as incredible as it sounds But I swear it is all True!

Crzytrnbuf 

Alan

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Re: HC not seeing LM-3S
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2019, 09:49:54 PM »
Here's the latest.

I tried the wonky LM in another install that I know works, in case my friend's supplied harness was wonky as well.  My HC did not see it at all, as per the first time using the supplied harness.

I then tried to determine if the LM was 'on'. I checked and I have 16 volts on the track, putting the multimeter to the blue & yellow wires/pins showed 15.55 volts, so, yup, it's 'on'.

I tried to clear the password, but it couldn't find the module, so it was unable to clear any pw.

I'm using my HC, not my friend's. To the best of my knowledge he already has his HC back.

What's the next steps for this wonky LM?

Next step - the mailbox. Priority mail to Ring.
Alan

LK&O Railroad website

When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro

KPack

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Re: HC not seeing LM-3S
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2019, 09:53:05 PM »
Here's the latest.

I tried the wonky LM in another install that I know works, in case my friend's supplied harness was wonky as well.  My HC did not see it at all, as per the first time using the supplied harness.

I then tried to determine if the LM was 'on'. I checked and I have 16 volts on the track, putting the multimeter to the blue & yellow wires/pins showed 15.55 volts, so, yup, it's 'on'.

I tried to clear the password, but it couldn't find the module, so it was unable to clear any pw.

I'm using my HC, not my friend's. To the best of my knowledge he already has his HC back.

What's the next steps for this wonky LM?

Next step - the mailbox. Priority mail to Ring.

Yep, at this point we've ruled out everything else.  The module needs a factory reset or he'll just replace it.  Likely he'll replace it with a fresh one and then use the defective one for testing.  He's probably curious as to what went wrong.  Again, I'm leaning towards the HC having corrupted files that then corrupted the LM.

-Kevin

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Re: HC not seeing LM-3S
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2019, 04:21:34 AM »
Late to the party as usual, I was just thinking about this and another thing that may be faulty (if it's not corruption) is the RF unit in the LM. If that's not working then definitely the HC will not be able to see the LM.

Just curious and to cover all the bases, your reset method was as per the manual?

Quote
To reset a password on a product, touch the “Tools” button on the “Main Page,” then touch the “Reset Password” button.  Turn the power off and then on again on the product that you want to reset the password.  Within 10 seconds of turning the power on, touch the “Reset Password” button on the HC screen.  The HC will display the product that it detected. If the detected product is the product that you want to reset its password, then turn the products power off and back on again.  Within 10 seconds of turning the power on, press the second “Reset Password” button.  The password in your product should now be cleared.

If your password reset was as per above then I can only think of some sort of corruption as Kevin mentioned or the RF unit is faulty. Both require TR's intervention.

- Tim

CPRail

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Re: HC not seeing LM-3S
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2019, 08:14:43 AM »
I was unable to do anything password reset related as my HC kept telling me it couldn't find anything when I tried to follow the instructions.

How do you reset a password when it can't find the module? What am I missing on the instruction front?
Ian Lisakowski
Modelling CP Rail & VIA in the early 80's
Rabid Winnipeg Jets Fan - Go Jets Go!!

KPack

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Re: HC not seeing LM-3S
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2019, 08:50:39 AM »
Password reset works when the HC cannot find the module due to a password issue.  Remember, when a module has a password assigned to it, it essentially is invisible to the HC unless you input the correct password.  The reset protocol shown above will clear any passwords and allow the HC to find and connect to the module.

1. Have module connected to power
2. Press the reset password button.
3. Remove power from module (if installed in a loco, tip loco so wheels do not touch one rail)
4. Reapply power to module
5. Within 10 seconds press the reset password button

At this point the HC will find the module if it was a password problem.  If it doesn't find it then it is likely a corrupted file or potentially a bad RF module.  I've had one or two modules get corrupted before (beta testing introduces a lot of errors) that had to get factory reset.  I haven't heard of a RF module going bad, so that would be a first.

-Kevin
« Last Edit: October 29, 2019, 08:54:25 AM by KPack »

CPRail

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Re: HC not seeing LM-3S
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2019, 08:52:24 AM »
Thanks Kevin. Those are easier to understand.

I'll give it a whirl tonight.

Ian Lisakowski
Modelling CP Rail & VIA in the early 80's
Rabid Winnipeg Jets Fan - Go Jets Go!!

CPRail

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Re: HC not seeing LM-3S
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2019, 06:53:22 PM »
Hey Gang,

I tried the PW reset to no avail. Still can't find the module.

Any other ideas, or shall I instruct the user to return the modules and HC to Ring advising of all the problems and attempted fixes?

Ian Lisakowski
Modelling CP Rail & VIA in the early 80's
Rabid Winnipeg Jets Fan - Go Jets Go!!