LM-2S not enough memory

[Cade1989]

I have an LM-2S installed in a Walthers SD70ACe and I tried to upload one of the new ULT horns, and it’s telling me I have not enough memory. Only things I have is the ACE ULT file, 2 lights, and diesel bell. I even updated the module to the new LM-2S update. Any ideas on what I should do?
Thanks

[nodcc4me]

That is a huge sound file. It was designed for the LM3s.  Try deleting some of the other files on the LM2s and see if the new Ult file will fit.

[TwinStar]

Reply to follow.

[KPack]

I don't know how big the SD70ACe file is, but I know it's not small.  And neither are the ULT horns.  They are significantly larger than the previous horns.  The LM-2S is limited on capacity compared to the LM-3S, but you should be able to fit both.  The ULT GE 7FDL-16 is also a huge file, but I can fit that, lights, picture, ULT horn, bell, and a couple other small sound files.

But without knowing the actual file size I couldn't tell if for sure it will fit.

-Kevin

[G8B4Life]

I don't know how big the SD70ACe file is

3,947,847 bytes. I think the LM-2 has only 4MB (4,194,304 bytes) of onboard memory. I'd have to look for that info again.

- Tim

[nodcc4me]

The LM-1 has become obsolete. Now that there are new files, the LM-2s is slowly becoming obsolete. Will it be just a matter of time before the LM-3s goes the same way? I'm not into replacing 28 LM-1/LM-2s modules after spending thousands on the ones I have. I'm still waiting for Tim to implement the LM-1 trade-up offer he was considering a couple of years ago.

[KPack]

I'm all for pushing the LM-1 trade-in/upgrade that had been pitched before.  It is now unsupported with updates and can no longer keep up with the new features.

The LM-2S will be limited by the new sound file sizes.  Besides that, it is fully capable of everything the LM-3S is capable of doing.  One solution to extend the life of the LM-2S is to create LM-2 versions of the new ULT files (like he has done with the GEVO-12).  They are basically the same file, but some parts are trimmed like the start and stop sequence.  What really matters is sound while it runs, not while it starts and shuts down.  The new ULT horns are pretty large, which will really stretch the LM-2S, but making your own horn sounds is certainly doable and will allow you to have many more sounds on the older module.  They just won't sound quite as nice as the ULT horns.

-Kevin

[TwinStar]

I know tech becomes obsolete but this really sounds like poor planning. Was sufficient flash memory capable of supporting future upgrades really that expensive when the -2 was built? Surely the state of Ring's crappy sound files were no surprise to Tim and he knew something better, and bigger, had to be produced to compete with DCC offerings.

[G8B4Life]

I can't find any historical price data for the flash memory in the -2, or the -3 for that matter (believe it or not it's also "obsolete") but the price of the suggested direct replacement from the same chip manufacturer is about $1.14 retail in tube packaging. Per unit price by the reel is cheaper of course.

So, my guess is that no, the flash memory in the -2 was not expensive when it was first built, probably not more than a couple of dollars each back then (the flash memory in the -2 and -3 have been around for a long time. The datasheets for them were first created in 2011).

I can confirm that the -2 has 32 Mbits (4 Megabytes) of flash memory and the -3 has 64 Mbits (8 Megabytes) of flash memory. Amazingly, the -3 could have 128 Mbits (16 Megabytes) of flash memory in the same package for very little more component cost.

TR will have to do something like create -2 versions of all the ULT sounds else he will end up with a lot of unhappy customers who can't use their existing stock for sounds, especially when those sounds weren't available pre ULT. I have to agree with Jacob's sentiments, the world has been speaking volumes about RE's sound quality since before the -2 and there's no way TR could not have known what was being said and it appears that no forward vision was applied to the sound capability of the -2.

- Tim

[TwinStar]

I can confirm that the -2 has 32 Mbits (4 Megabytes) of flash memory and the -3 has 64 Mbits (8 Megabytes) of flash memory. Amazingly, the -3 could have 128 Mbits (16 Megabytes) of flash memory in the same package for very little more component cost.



- Tim

Is this something that could be upgraded on an existing LM? Or is there more than just soldering involved?

[KPack]

I can confirm that the -2 has 32 Mbits (4 Megabytes) of flash memory and the -3 has 64 Mbits (8 Megabytes) of flash memory. Amazingly, the -3 could have 128 Mbits (16 Megabytes) of flash memory in the same package for very little more component cost.



- Tim

Is this something that could be upgraded on an existing LM? Or is there more than just soldering involved?

I was wondering the same thing.  If it's just a matter of soldering, then I could quickly turn my LM-2S fleet into an unstoppable force.

The problem I foresee is that if you put in a blank memory chip, how in the world would you get it to "become" a Locomotive Module?  We don't have anything to flash the memory with the basic stuff...such as the basic Railpro firmware, how to get the controller to recognize it, the unique ID for each locomotive module, etc. 

As nice as it would be it doesn't seem like it's a possibility.  I'm not worried about it because the LM-2S is plenty for my needs and I have not experienced a major issue with storage space just yet.

-Kevin

[G8B4Life]

Is this something that could be upgraded on an existing LM? Or is there more than just soldering involved?

It's an interesting idea, though you'd need very good soldering skills to do it, the flash memory chip is tiny. An SMD re-work station would likely be needed.

While even if you had the skills to do it and did do it whether or not it'd work is the question, and Kevin touched on that, I don't believe it'd be quite as an insurmountable task as it looks though.

Without knowing exactly what is stored in the flash memory and what isn't this is just a best educational guess for the "hard parts".

- The unique ID is likely stored in the PIC, not the flash memory. There is memory sections in the PIC for just that type of purpose. Another candidate is the unique ID is programmed as part of the transmitter in the LM but I think that's much less likely the case.

- The program that controls the device (an LM in this case) there are two possibilities: 1: The program is written to the PIC in it's entirety or 2: Some or all of the program is written to the flash memory and pulled in into the PIC as needed. I have no idea which of these it is. If it's all in the PIC then changing out the flash memory wouldn't require pre-flashing the flash memory with the product program.

- Could, as they stand now,  the -2 access more than 4 Megabytes and the -3 access more than 8 Megabytes of memory? Possibly not without a change to the product program so that they could use the extra memory available.

So definitely not insurmountable but I'd say probably beyond the realm of 99.9% of people here. Changing out the flash memory is the easy part (with the right tools of course, not an everyday soldering iron), figuring out the rest is the hard part.

- Tim

[TwinStar]

At this point my concern is purely speculative as we don't yet have an ULT EMD 567 sound file. My fleet of LM-2S equipped locomotive models were almost entirely powered by 567's. I guess the size of this hopefully forthcoming file will be the make or break item for me. It would really suck having to replace so many.

Perhaps a RAM upgrade could be offered by Ring?

[KPack]

It all depends on how complicated the sound file is.  The ULT EMD 710 ACe (710-G3C-T2) and the GE 7FDL-16 Modern are very large files most likely due to the complexity of the sound mixing.  Longer transitions between notches and such.

The ULT EMD 16-645E3 (645 Turbo) is an truly exceptional sound file, but it's not so large that it causes any problems.  On my SD40-2's (all LM-2S's) I have the ULT prime mover, custom horn, custom bell, handbrake set, handbrake release, couple, uncouple, dynamic brake, and brake release sounds.  Plus lighting and picture, and all updated to 2.09.  Never had any space issues at all.

My guess is that a 567 ULT file will be the same.

-Kevin

[TwinStar]

It all depends on how complicated the sound file is.  The ULT EMD 710 ACe (710-G3C-T2) and the GE 7FDL-16 Modern are very large files most likely due to the complexity of the sound mixing.  Longer transitions between notches and such.

The ULT EMD 16-645E3 (645 Turbo) is an truly exceptional sound file, but it's not so large that it causes any problems.  On my SD40-2's (all LM-2S's) I have the ULT prime mover, custom horn, custom bell, handbrake set, handbrake release, couple, uncouple, dynamic brake, and brake release sounds.  Plus lighting and picture, and all updated to 2.09.  Never had any space issues at all.

My guess is that a 567 ULT file will be the same.

-Kevin

Thanks Kevin, that's good to know. Once all my 567's are running I'll leap forward in time to 'modern' GP40's. Nice to know the 645 Turbo will fit on my old timey equipment.