Made me appreciate RailPro even more

[G8B4Life]

I came across this link on one of the blog's I check into from time to time: https://youtu.be/VinRRW0cGdc. It a video of the BNSF Fall River division layout. While the layout is very large and very well done, what got me and the point of this post is the scene with the owner installing batteries into about 20 radio throttles.

That just made me appreciate RailPro even more that the battery charging circuitry is built in. If I ever had a layout that needed that many controllers it'd be a simple matter to build a large capacity charger. 1 x 5v 30A SMPS power supply and some suitable modified cables.

Now, if only we could use them while charging life would be really great!

- Tim

[Alan]

I think removing the batteries is the only way to turn off a Digitrax throttle. No on/off switch.

[nodcc4me]

That's right Alan. No switch. The guys at my club are always scrambling for charged batteries, even though we have a 10 bank charger. You have to wonder why Digitrax couldn't have added a small switch somewhere on the controller? 

[G8B4Life]

To be fair, removing the batteries is the only way to completely 100% turn off a HC, seeing as all pushing off seems to do is put the HC into suspend/standby instead of actually off and not using any power what-so-ever, but it is an effective system instead of a physical on/off switch.

It is these things that Ring built in that makes me appreciate the system more, no need to remove the batteries for storage between uses (I wonder what the battery life of idle DigiTrax radio throttle is?) and no need to remove the batteries to charge them. The only flaw in Rings design is if you have a flat controller at the start of a session it's not so easy to change the batteries for charged ones as it is with other systems.

- Tim

[Alan]

I have found the powered down HC battery life to be very long. Easily in excess of 6 months. Since I am very much still in the layout construction phase I run trains very little. Often the HC can sit unused for months at a time with the charge indicator showing it still has plenty of charge. I charge every once in a while just because it seems like the right thing to do.

[TwinStar]

A major problem is that somewhere around 11.4 V Digitrax becomes 'self aware' and starts doing its own thing. Fresh batteries is like crack to these guys.

[G8B4Life]

I have found the powered down HC battery life to be very long. Easily in excess of 6 months.

I can't say that I get that long storing my HC, not that I've done any sort of extended test to find out but it certainly seems to go down much quicker than that. Perhaps my batteries aren't so good, or perhaps I'm charging at the wrong ambient temperature, or perhaps my charger isn't doing the job, though it's specs are the same as the supplied charger, except for the input voltage of course. Hmmm.

A major problem is that somewhere around 11.4 V Digitrax becomes 'self aware' and starts doing its own thing.

That sounds dangerous. I can hear the theme to Terminator in the distance 

For the sake of research I read up on some of the Digitrax radio throttle documentation. They do include some sort of power saving mode in the higher end radio throttles but it appears that is for when in use, not powered down. The throttles do also take a 9v battery so there's half the problems right there with how long they will last; compared to a HC (those that know how a 9v battery is constructed will know what I mean).

- Tim

[nodcc4me]

I doubt if my batteries would last for 6 months. After one week of non-use with a full charge, the gauge drops down to about the halfway point. My batteries are at least three years old, and maybe more, as I was one of the first upgrades from HC1 to HC2, and I don't think Tim Ring changed the batteries, which were already two years old at the time.

The HC Sim takes away much of the discharge/recharge time that I used to have with the HC2.

[Alan]

My first HC2 was purchased Aug 2014. Another factor that may be in play is the fact my batteries do not have a lot of cycles on them. As I stated earlier, I really haven't spent a great deal of time running trains. Mostly limited to testing with a little fun time here and there. I would guess my HCs have only been recharged maybe 10 times at most. I don't use sound or accessory programs so my HCs don't go through the battery draining download process.

My cordless tool experiences mimic this observation. When the tool batteries are new they will hold a charge for a long time just sitting. As the batteries get many cycles on them they lose their ability to hold charge for long periods.

[William Brillinger]

If I store my HC-2 with a full charge, a week or two later the battery indicator will often show that it is near "low" but even so, the HC will run for many hours before it goes to "red".   

There is a known issue where the indicator will become out of sync with the actual charge.

Thankfully the CI-1 & HC-Sim eliminate the need for large uploads via the HC so it's not an issue to me anymore.

[Alan]

You made me curious. I just went down to the train room to check the HCs.

The last time either was turned on was Labor Day 2016. I know the date because I wrote a post on RPUG a few days later about how easy it was for my visiting friend to use RP.  https://rpug.pdc.ca/index.php/topic,271.msg1872.html#msg1872  The trains we ran are still sitting in the sidings where we left them. I have been working on fascia and control panels since October. http://www.lkorailroad.com/fascia-upper-deck-part-i/  The fascia work necessitated dropping all the module to panel wiring. I can't turn on the layout while the control wiring is dangling for fear of shorting.

One HC level meter indicates 1/3 charge. That is the seldom used, seldom charged HC. The second HC, the one I commonly use, shows just a sliver of charge on the indicator.

Both HCs turn on and show at least some charge after 9 months of being in the drawer!

[G8B4Life]

Both HCs turn on and show at least some charge after 9 months of being in the drawer!

9 months! You sure you haven't crammed some Nuclear fuel rods in there Alan?

While looking for one of my past posts where I typed out the batteries that were installed in my HC, I ran across an old thread on charging and noted this from RE.

If the HC is left off for a long period of time it looses about 10% of the charge per week.  Even from a full charge if left unused for about 2.5 months it will be dead.

Now, I did some quick calculations using various calculators on the net and for 2.5 months (75 days / 1800 hours) an "off" HC with a 2500mAH batteries would be drawing about 1mA, roughly 1.4mAH. Not bad. For 9 months (269 days / 6456 hours) that figure drops to roughly 0.4 mA.

Now, there are other external factors which would change those figures, and it assumes the 3 batteries are all in series (there is a post here that suggests two are in series and one isn't but I have no proof of it).

Alan, I'm sure you can add a lot to or correct the above but it seems the HC is quite power efficient in the "off" mode.

- Tim

[Alan]

Something doesn't add up. The statement about 2.5 months it will be dead absolutely isn't true in my case. I can assure you I have never charged my HCs that frequently even back when I was building modules and doing a lot of testing. It usually took me more than a month to complete a single module. I had only a single HC back then. In all, it took me 17 months to build all the modules. That would have been 7 HC charge cycles or roughly a charge every 1-1/2 modules. That did not happen.

FWIW We know RP uses PIC in the LM. A 16 bit PIC in sleep mode draws 0.2 uA. That's 1/2000 of 0.4 mA. The HC of course is not a PIC but at least it demonstrates that minuscule micro processor sleep currents are common.

I'll charge one to 100% and let it set. We'll find out for sure.

[William Brillinger]

The 2.5 month statement is consistent with Ring's usually conservative statements designed to keep the user out of trouble with the equipment.

[G8B4Life]

Well, I never did say that the statement Ring made was true and correct but it is what he wrote so I did a calculation on the figure. I'm not versed much in all things electronics so to me 1mAH  doesn't sound like a huge current draw for something in sleep/standby/whatever mode. Thinking about it though the 9v batteries in my smoke alarms last many many months with the same or less capacity as the batteries in the HC so perhaps 1mAH is a huge number.

I do remember when I got my HC it was for all purposes dead (red flashing bar immediately on turning on). The only thing I don't know is how long the supplier had it before I got it; and how long RE had it before that. Too bad there's no date of manufacture on them, then I could check and see how long it had lasted.

I look forward to your results Alan. I only have one HC , there's no hope of me leaving it off for months!

- Tim